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MrOaktown_56

How is Mike Mayock doing so far?

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I always feel judging a GM at all in the first 3-4 years is impossible. Everyone loved Reggie, but the fact is, his overall grade here I’d give a D+. We just didn’t know it cause we didn’t give it enough time. Reggie was a good contract manager and good 2014 draft (I mean that draft all fell in his lap) but his overall drafting and free agency was terrible beyond words. 
 

Mayock looks pretty good so far, but the truth is, we just really don’t know yet. He could be an A, he could be a D. We’ll know in two, maybe three years. Josh Jacobs looks damn good but most of Mayocks draftees and free agent signings still have a ton to prove, even Trent Brown has to prove he can stay healthy. 
 

So far though, I’d say I’m absolutely satisfied with Mayock. However, the more correct answer is, it’s basically “incomplete”. 

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I feel like signing cheap vets like Randall and Prince shouldn’t be held against MM. Smart to bring in cheap vets, it’s just our youth might have shown more then expected. 
 

good moves:

+ taking risk on Richie
+ T Brown (even if it was an overpay)
+ Jacobs seems like a cornerstone
+ Day 3 of 2019 draft  plus UDFA 19 (Moreau, Renfrow, Ingold, James, Crosby, Cole, Seig) 

+Littleton- was thought to be the best free LB on the market, and MM was able to get him to sign without overpaying. 
 

bad moves 

- AB - honestly I would took the gamble on one of the great wideouts to ever play. However,  MM should have made the picks conditional in some way. 
- T Williams, L Joyner, Mariota - all overpaid flops in free agency 

- Muse, Bowden - Bowden already gone, Muse done for the year. 
- Trevor Davis - dude sucked, should have just gave Rico a shot. 
- 2020 UDFA- didn’t really go after any priority UDFAs

still to soon moves: 

how do these players develop or perform: Booker, Nelly, Zay, Edwards, Ruggs, Simpson, Ferrell, Kwit, McMillen, Mullen, Arnette, Amik, I Johnson, Abram, Heath, Nassib

haven’t had a chance,  but always interesting to see how rookies and 2nd year players developed. AJ Brown was someone who I was really high on at 27. But, still too early to judge MM. There’s been misses, but there is promise...



 

 

Edited by Humble_Beast

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7 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

A lot of you make it sound like you are top talent evaluators who know more than Mayock and say we should have picked this player or that player over who we drafted.

Ah, the old straw man argument. Well, in most cases the professional GMs do know better, however they do at times make questionable moves that we as consumers of their products have a right to question.   

I dont think anyone here would claim to be a better GM or talent evaluator than Mike Mayock, that doesn't mean that we should blindly like every move and follow like sheep. The whole point of a forum is to express differing opinions and it is absolutely correct that we express when we disagree. 

The very reasobable contention here I think is that the team made a very questionable move or two that was brought up at the time of the draft. Bowden was picked as a RB having never played full time RB before and Muse was picked far earlier that most people thought palatable. It turns out Mayock appears to have made poor decisions here and the vast majority of posters here would have made better decisions. That doesn't mean they are better GMs or better talent evaluators but it does mean we can spot obvious errors when they are made. We are lucky, there are a lot of knowledgeable posters here who are right to question, discuss and hold the FO to account. 

I like Mayock and think he's a good GM who's learning and getting better but I'm also going to speak up when I think an error has been made, especially such an obvious one.

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1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

Ah, the old straw man argument. Well, in most cases the professional GMs do know better, however they do at times make questionable moves that we as consumers of their products have a right to question.   

I dont think anyone here would claim to be a better GM or talent evaluator than Mike Mayock, that doesn't mean that we should blindly like every move and follow like sheep. The whole point of a forum is to express differing opinions and it is absolutely correct that we express when we disagree. 

The very reasobable contention here I think is that the team made a very questionable move or two that was brought up at the time of the draft. Bowden was picked as a RB having never played full time RB before and Muse was picked far earlier that most people thought palatable. It turns out Mayock appears to have made poor decisions here and the vast majority of posters here would have made better decisions. That doesn't mean they are better GMs or better talent evaluators but it does mean we can spot obvious errors when they are made. We are lucky, there are a lot of knowledgeable posters here who are right to question, discuss and hold the FO to account. 

I like Mayock and think he's a good GM who's learning and getting better but I'm also going to speak up when I think an error has been made, especially such an obvious one.

fair. 

loved the Edwards pick and was banging the table for him at bowden pick. didn't love bowden or muse in 3rd. muse tbd. 

didn't love Arnette either but if he plays like rumored then I'll admit I was wrong.

either way, way too early to judge both drafts and moves. 

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35 minutes ago, roi34 said:

fair. 

loved the Edwards pick and was banging the table for him at bowden pick. didn't love bowden or muse in 3rd. muse tbd. 

didn't love Arnette either but if he plays like rumored then I'll admit I was wrong.

either way, way too early to judge both drafts and moves. 

It was a really strange draft in hindsight, the Edwards pick and the Robertson pick were superb value yet Muse was a huge reach. Ruggs and Arnette were drafted as best fits to specific roles but Bowden obviously was a terrible fit. 

As you say, its early to judge either draft class really and we cant really get a handle on Mayock's MO yet either. But with the new high profile move, beautiful facilities and fresh start we really do need to start turning all this into ticks in the win column and soon.

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I’m not bothered by misses. To be honest we don’t know if the guys that have been cut or traded Are better than what the raiders have. Sure a lot was paid for these guys but that was because they thought they’d be upgraded turns out what they have is better. 
 

like most I’ll have a better grasp on my opinion after the season because the patriots miss often but coaching covers that up. Mayock and Gruden go hand in hand so let’s see what Gruden can pull out of his hat. 

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10 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I wan't all of you armchair GM's and critics to put your money where your mouth is so I can come back to this thread a year from now and call you out.  Give me 5 3rd rounders in this draft who will be bonafide studs a year from now.  You guys make it sound like 3rd rounds of NFL drafts are littered with studs but clearly you do zero research as 90 percent of 3rd round picks are fringe NFL players.  I'll wait for your 5 3rd round studs from this draft LOL 

Ok I'll take the bait 😀 This should be fascinating, but guys I would have thought very hard about picking in the 3rd round and think might be very good would be:

Bryan Edwards WR South Carolina

Zach Baun LB Wisconsin

Zach Moss RB Utah

Antonio Gibson RB Memphis

Ashtyn Davies S California

Logan Wilson LB Wyoming

They would have been my top guys. Obviously we got Edwards so I was delighted but Baun, Gibson and Davies were picked before Bowden so they weren't really options for us in real time. I also think in the 3rd round and beyond you have to have a longer outlook than just 1 year ahead.

Picks further down I would think have a chance to be very good:

Neville Gallimore DT Oklahoma

Cameton Dantzler CB Mississippi St

Akeem Davis-Gaither LB Appalachian State

Solomon Kindley OG Georgia

Amik Robertson CB Louisiana Tech

Antonio Gandy-Golden WR Liberty

As you correctly say, most will be fringe guys but these are the players I would have thought had the best chance to be great in the lower rounds. I would have considered all these guys in our 3rd to 5th range picks.

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I wanted Edwards, moss, dantzler but like robertson pick

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1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

Ok I'll take the bait 😀 This should be fascinating, but guys I would have thought very hard about picking in the 3rd round and think might be very good would be:

Bryan Edwards WR South Carolina

Zach Baun LB Wisconsin

Zach Moss RB Utah

Antonio Gibson RB Memphis

Ashtyn Davies S California

Logan Wilson LB Wyoming

They would have been my top guys. Obviously we got Edwards so I was delighted but Baun, Gibson and Davies were picked before Bowden so they weren't really options for us in real time. I also think in the 3rd round and beyond you have to have a longer outlook than just 1 year ahead.

Picks further down I would think have a chance to be very good:

Neville Gallimore DT Oklahoma

Cameton Dantzler CB Mississippi St

Akeem Davis-Gaither LB Appalachian State

Solomon Kindley OG Georgia

Amik Robertson CB Louisiana Tech

Antonio Gandy-Golden WR Liberty

As you correctly say, most will be fringe guys but these are the players I would have thought had the best chance to be great in the lower rounds. I would have considered all these guys in our 3rd to 5th range picks.

Darrynton Evans RB & Malik Harrison LB were others I liked fwiw. 

 

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9 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

- 2020 UDFA- didn’t really go after any priority UDFAs

This really isn't something you can criticize him for though. How many of those guys made rosters around the league?

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21 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

This really isn't something you can criticize him for though. How many of those guys made rosters around the league?

I don’t have time to look around all the rosters, but we didn’t really add anyone of value compared to the UDFA class of 2019.... go after cheap talent period 

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1 minute ago, Humble_Beast said:

I don’t have time to look around all the rosters, but we didn’t really add anyone of value compared to the UDFA class of 2019.... go after cheap talent period 

In a year with no OTA, a weird training camp, and no preseason games. Tough to evaluate UDFA. 

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48 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

This really isn't something you can criticize him for though. How many of those guys made rosters around the league?

most rosters are comprised of UDFA surprisingly. not to say those are the key players.

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1 minute ago, roi34 said:

most rosters are comprised of UDFA surprisingly. not to say those are the key players.

You can definitely find some gems in UDFA. Having no OTA's, a weird training camp, and no preseason games makes it 100x more difficult to evaluate those guys though. 

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