Raiders place Tanner Muse on IR

[NCOUGHMAN]

8 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Can you find me a GM that has hit on every single pick? 

We've had 1 draft pick that didn't stick, 1 that went to IR, and traded 1 after realizing it wasn't the right fit off the field. 

It’s only his 2nd draft and

cle has struggled 

abram only played 1 half of a game

imo those were fancy picks even tho I’ve learned to like them it’s hard to ignore the success of Allen (Jax) and thornhill (kc). 
 

you can’t miss like that on first rounders imo

 

[dante9876]

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Our rookie class had one of the best years for a rookie class in NFL history last season. All you can do is hope that your young players flash and then develop going forward. If you can't give him credit yet is it really fair to criticize him when we haven't even seen most of these guys play for us yet? lmao.

You still dont get it. Most teams dont play that many rookies cause they haven't gotten rid of almost every player from last regime in such a quick time. Yes it's fair to give credit and criticize. Lol. I dont know why you think you got to wait 5 years to call moves bad or good. Do I got to wait till next year to call brown trade and bowden picks a waste. Do I have to wait to call Jacobs pick or trent brown signing good. No I dont. 

[RaidersAreOne]

1 minute ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

It’s only his 2nd draft and

cle has struggled 

abram only played 1 half of a game

imo those were fancy picks even tho I’ve learned to like them it’s hard to ignore the success of Allen (Jax) and thornhill (kc). 
 

you can’t miss like that on first rounders imo

 

How the heck is Abram getting hurt week 1 Mayock's fault?

[dante9876]

4 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

There were reports that he looked slow throughout training camp. I never commented either way about the DEA raid but again that combined with him having $20,000+ of jewelry as a college student and punching opposing players/getting physical with his own coaches doesn't exactly scream high character guy. 

I also think it was more difficult to get a gauge on guys characters with no pro days and no team workouts. We only met with him once for 15 minutes at the combine. 

Based on reports from people close to the team it was a character issue with him. Why else would they look to move on so quickly? They already knew he was going to have a steep learning curve and at very worst he has some special teams value as a returner. The media's access to camp, players, etc. was also very limited this year due to covid. And what benefit would there have been from us leaking character concerns about Bowden before we look to move on from him? 

What's the benefit of leaking it afterwards? Them backtracking it? To make yourself not look bad to fans for taking a horrid pick than to not alienate yourself to players for trashing a player on way out the door. 

[dante9876]

2 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

How the heck is Abram getting hurt week 1 Mayock's fault?

It's not his fault. But cant put that in the good bin either. Like giving him credit for drafting a starter stuff. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

4 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

How the heck is Abram getting hurt week 1 Mayock's fault?

Abram was known as a wild guy that’s comes with the territory example bob sanders

like signing a nutcase like ab  then being surprised he gets nutty

Edited September 8, 2020 by NCOUGHMAN

[RaidersAreOne]

3 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

It's not his fault. But cant put that in the good bin either. Like giving him credit for drafting a starter stuff. 

That's fair, but calling it a miss already is comical.  

[NCOUGHMAN]

3 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

That's fair, but calling it a miss already is comical.  

It’s a miss so far cause he hasn’t even played you don’t draft guys that high to sit and learn for a year. 
 

if you had to rank all the safeties from last years draft where would you rank abrams? Honest question open for anyone to answer 

[ronjon1990]

34 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

You do realize that 9/17 players that Mayock has drafted the last two cycles are projected starters, right? We recouped some of the value from Bowden by trading him now and again, the jury is still out on Muse. We haven't even seen him play a snap yet... 

9/17 draft picks

On a team that was gutted and still isn't viewed as very good, that isn't saying a whole lot. 

Jamarcus Russell was a starter. Gareon Conley was a starter. Being a starter on a bad team isn't the barometer for a successful pick. 

We were a bad, shallow team. We didn't attract any top flight FA's (the whole point a lot of people on here made over and over again as an excuse for all sorts of objectively stupid moves). Most of our rookies were/are starters solely because they were able to beat out the PS replacement level talent that we had. That says nothing other than we've made reaches for guys who have underwhelmed in comparison to guys who were still on the board and pissed away draft capital on objectively bad moves that some of us have consistently derided. Excuses are like...you know. 

If Mayock was a total novice, I would expect these types of hiccups. He's not. He should know better. He clearly doesn't. He drafted a QB/WR with character issues IN THE 3RD ROUND to play RB. We blew a trade for Antonio Brown...who was a character nightmare. That's apparently a recurring theme, no? We literally gave money away to Tyrell Williams on an overpriced deal, gave money away to Randall, and refuse to use Joyner to his strengths yet keeping him around and letting better players walk. We are totally incapable of attracting quality free agents. For what we have spent in terms of money and draft capital, we shouldn't as a fan base, be worried about things like: our WR corps, RB2, DL, LB corps, and our secondary. We shouldn't have to make excuses for bad players and cross our fingers that guys who were backups on other teams can be starters for us. We shouldn't be constantly holding our breath and hoping that someone can successfully play out of their natural position or makes a successful transition to a whole new position unless they were a 6th or 7th round flier, not a 3rd round guy. Between Gruden and Mayock's collective 3 years, we've made awful mistakes that would be excusable if they were Jay Gruden and Bruce Allen. They aren't. They're being paid royally.  If Mayock was the guru some claim he is, he shouldn't be making the same stupid mistakes that were being made before he got here. 

But yeah, no, the 50% starter rate of draft picks on a bad team devoid of legitimate veteran competition and a 4th straight year of probable backsliding while we STILL worry about WR, DT, LB, and S with hopes and prayers on CB and DE totally means he's doing a bang up job.  🤦🏼‍♂️

 

 

[NYRaider]

9 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

What's the benefit of leaking it afterwards? Them backtracking it? To make yourself not look bad to fans for taking a horrid pick than to not alienate yourself to players for trashing a player on way out the door. 

If he wasn't ready to play and it was purely a football concern you'd just stash him on IR like they did with Muse. Mayock didn't have anything bad to say about Bowden's character, did he? The media reported that there was concerns about how focused he was on football. Those reports seem to be pretty accurate based on the fact that others have seen him out late night in Vegas during training camp...

[ronjon1990]

20 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

How the heck is Abram getting hurt week 1 Mayock's fault?

That isn't. 

Taking a player who profiled as reckless and has a playing style that draft analysts worried about being a problem in today's NFL is another story. 

I say the jury is still out on Abram, but I'd be remiss if I didn't say I worry he winds up the penalty poster child a'la DJ Swearinger. Personally, I wouldn't have used a 1st on him for that reason. But as I said, he's clearly a TBD case

 

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

If Mayock was a total novice, I would expect these types of hiccups. He's not. He should know better. He clearly doesn't. He drafted a QB/WR with character issues IN THE 3RD ROUND to play RB. We blew a trade for Antonio Brown...who was a character nightmare. That's apparently a recurring theme, no? We literally gave money away to Tyrell Williams on an overpriced deal, gave money away to Randall, and refuse to use Joyner to his strengths yet keeping him around and letting better players walk. We are totally incapable of attracting quality free agents.

So we blew a trade for AB and a pick on Bowden but then got a 4th round pick in exchange. Williams played well last season when he was healthy, unfortunately I don't think any GM in the league can predict injuries. The Randall move was bad but he wasn't available all of training camp so what else can you do? And Joyner played poorly last season but he was widely considered one of the top FA's in the 2019 class and I don't know which better player we let walk? 

We're totally incapable of attracting quality free agents? Trent Brown is one of the best OT in the league and we signed Richie Incognito who was a key cog for us. We just brought in Littleton, Kwit, Collins, and Nassib too who are all in their prime and all look like they will be key contributors for us this season. 

[RaidersAreOne]

I don't think Randall was a bad move either. 99% of us loved the signing and thought it was an excellent addition. Sure things didn't work out like we wanted and he didn't fit, but the move itself wasn't a bad "risk" imo. 

[ronjon1990]

38 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

All those reports didn't come out until after the cutting. I bet you probably defended him after  the dea raid and he wasnt arrested. So u mean to tell me mayock drafted a guy with obvious character concerns, brought him to Vegas and ask him to change position and learn it while trying to learn one of the hardest playbooks in the league. Yeah this was bowden fault. Lolol. 

No, there were rumblings beforehand. Anyone who followed him at Kentucky would know there had been some level of problems. Then the DEA thing came out. At that point, I don't hold it against Mayock for not publicly blasting the guy. Reports said the Raiders hoped he would mature, he just didn't. I blame Mayock for taking him in the first place, not for how the situation was ultimately handled. Same for AB- SHOULD HAVE KNOWN, didn't do due diligence. Those are amateur moves, but kudos for cutting losses. With those kudos come  criticism for making the mistake in the first.

I didn't see very many people defending or crucifying him regarding the raid on here. Everyone mostly said "oof, hope there's nothing to it" as anyone would. He wasn't implicated in the raid. He was just apparently too closely associated with the lifestyle. That's pretty easy to hide if you're in a spotlight. Happens all the time. Again, shame on Mayock for the lack of due diligence, not the handling of the situation. NYRaiders didn't, to my knowledge, go on Bowden's defense, but even if he did, there's nothing wrong with that given the information we as fans had available, nor is it pertinent to the discussion. 

 

[Humble_Beast]

I thought we were a lock for Bryon Jones and we couldn’t close the deal... smh