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DreamKid

GDT 9/13/20 Week 1: 0-0 Baltimore Ravens vs 0-0 Cleveland Browns

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9 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

Ferg had a Sack too, but it got wiped out by an accepted penalty. Judon was underwhelming and weirdly in coverage, like..a lot. McPhee was stout against the rush. Ward seems improved from last year and brought some noticeable energy.

I also thought Brandon Williams had a spectacular game, particularly in run defense.

Didn't notice Derek Wolfe's name get called once.

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27 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I also thought Brandon Williams had a spectacular game, particularly in run defense.

Didn't notice Derek Wolfe's name get called once.

Derek Wolfe had a couple of good stunt moves that really freed up the edges rushers on loops, but other than that, yeah, I'm not sure he even had a tackle.

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9 hours ago, Danand said:

Watching the Bengals game, I get more and more confident about my stance, that building the oline has got to be the primary objective either before you get your franchise QB, or after you think you have him. 

 

100% agree here. Gotta make sure that O-line is god tier. Did anyone see how Cesar Ruiz played with the Saints (if he did) I fell asleep almost at kickoff and didn't see. He's who I wanted the Ravens to draft.

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10 hours ago, Danand said:

I just don't recall Yanda being that good, that we thought we had a great player until he played a full season at RG, but maybe my memory is wrong.

We haven't seen enough of Bredeson, Powers, Mekari, Phillips to say anything about their upside. I think we have seen enough of Bozeman and Skura to say, that they can be steady Eddies for several years, but not as good as you would want your oline to be. 

Watching the Bengals game, I get more and more confident about my stance, that building the oline has got to be the primary objective either before you get your franchise QB, or after you think you have him. That also means upgrading the positions, even though you have starters that are "good enough". We might potentially see Dolphins, Jets, Bengals waste 2-3 or more years of the cheap rookie QB contract, and then have to try and win once they extend them and pay them franchise QB money.

 

I posted links below to the threads where we had Yanda discussions at the time. He was definitely good. He was the best OL on those OL units. While Terry and Gaither weren’t anything special, Gaither could be when he tried and both Brown and Grubbs were good starters. Yanda was AT WORSE a good starter at OG, but I considered him very good. This while not having any help from superior players at OT. Now if you’re arguing him being “elite” than sure, he wasn’t elite until probably a couple years removed from blowing out his knee, maybe year 5ish. But I assumed your point was about a player proving to be good. Bozeman and Skura in more opportunities have proven to be inferior to what Yanda was even as a rookie OL playing at a worse position. Maybe Skura last year was on Yanda’s rookie level, I might be willing to agree to that however.

In terms of the other young guys, absolutely I haven’t given up on those guys. Like I said Tyre Phillips is a rookie, I’ve mentioned how I liked what I saw from Ben Powers in the game last season. I won’t co-sign on Bredeson until he shows something in game... I can only speak to his collegiate play, which I was not particularly a fan of, so I’m not necessarily a believer in him until he shows me something to believe in.

My main disagreement with your point isn’t that guys can’t develop by their 3rd season, it’s in comparing the circumstance of these guys to Yanda... who made immediate impacts along our OL as a rookie that was above average and then as a 2nd year guard that was the best player on our OL.

9 hours ago, sp6488 said:

I love you @diamondbull424 but gotta agree with @Danand here as his version aligns with Ken McKusicks recount of Yandas early career (he’s done quite a bit of retrospective discussion of him this offseason). 

While I respect Ken McKusick and all, I’ll take the anecdotal evidence that guys on this forum were providing in real time about how good we felt Yanda was.

Who should play RT thread in 2007 where Yanda is the easy favorite over Adam Terry.

Who have you been most impressed with thread. Raven5255 listed a few of the players he was most impressed with. This is just looking at rookie Yanda at a less optimal position.

Marshal Yanda injury thread in 2008 notice how huge a loss everyone mentioned he was. We had people thinking the season was over. We had some calling him the best player along that OL with an interior that also consisted of future Pro Bowler Ben Grubbs and a guy many of us felt was a possible Pro Bowl snub in previous seasons in Jason Brown, who had moved over to the center position to accommodate Yanda’s brilliance inside at guard.

6 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Yeah, Yanda wasn't the force he became that early. He needed time to settle in at G after all the switching around he did early in his career.

Hell, I remember the first play of our 2010 season being Yanda at RT completely failing to even get a hand on the Jets DE and Joe getting crushed and losing a fumble, lol.

Yanda didn't become Yanda until late 2010/early 2011ish IMO.

Yanda wasn’t a great fit at RT. He was simply above average at the position. As the above threads state, many considered him to be an above average to good player at that position. Many didn’t necessarily have him above Tony Pashos (as a rookie), but he was quite clearly better than career backup types like Adam Terry.

In 2008 when he blew out basically every ligament in his knee (especially at that time period), the recovery led to him being even less nimble, while his experience allowed him to stay at a similar level when filling in for RT. But at that point he was much more guard than OT.

4 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Yanda-

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Those PFF grades certainly backup the eye test and how we viewed him on the forum. Felt he was better at OG than OT his rookie season, but I think he experienced a downtrend after his serious knee injury in 2008 and that caused him to play catch up in 2009. In 2010 I feel there was some musical chairs where we moved him back to RT for a few games. I’d be willing to almost bet that’s what led to his decline there.

Either way this fits the anecdotal evidence associated with what people on the forum saw.

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2 hours ago, RavensfanRD said:

100% agree here. Gotta make sure that O-line is god tier. Did anyone see how Cesar Ruiz played with the Saints (if he did) I fell asleep almost at kickoff and didn't see. He's who I wanted the Ravens to draft.

I was a couple of the quarters but didn’t particularly pay attention to him. Was moreso in it to see Brady play about as I expected.

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1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

I was a couple of the quarters but didn’t particularly pay attention to him. Was moreso in it to see Brady play about as I expected.

Caesar Ruiz was inactive. He’s dealing with an ankle injury

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12 minutes ago, Boodgyman5220 said:

Caesar Ruiz was inactive. He’s dealing with an ankle injury

Yup. Didn’t pay attention to their OL. Was just there for Brady failure.

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29 minutes ago, RavensfanRD said:

Thank you, gentlemen. @diamondbull424 @Boodgyman5220

Starting to feel I may regret my Mike Evans pick up. SEND JAMEIS BACK TO TAMPA!

Yeah never good when bigger vertical style WRs start having issues with hamstrings. I mean really any WR for that matter. Such nuisance injuries.

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2 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Yeah never good when bigger vertical style WRs start having issues with hamstrings. I mean really any WR for that matter. Such nuisance injuries.

Worst of all, NBT completely ghosts you as a result...

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2 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Yeah never good when bigger vertical style WRs start having issues with hamstrings. I mean really any WR for that matter. Such nuisance injuries.

I used to mock hamstring injuries when I was younger and played football. Until of course, I had a hamstring injury. It. Never. Goes. Away..

It felt constant until off season and I could actually rest. Every little thing, you can just feel it. So, yes. Nuisance is the perfect way to explain it. 

Edited by baltimoreRebel
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I took a closer look at Bradley Bozeman and the dline/Judon yesterday. Have gone through the first half, and Bozeman did a much better job than I anticipated. The struggle on oline could be over Skura, but I will have to take a closer look.

I thought it was Broderick Washington who got pushed around on the dline, but it was actually Justin Ellis. He lost a couple of one-on-one matchups. Washington actually did fine from what I saw, which surprised me. The long run by Chubb was Calais Campbell coming onto the field late, and never seemed to get in position. Then Harrison took a really bad ankle and never squeezed the gap that allowed Chubb to run free.

Judon still doesn't win matchups against his direct opponent. McPhee still gets more push than Judon even though he works inside.

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I feel like those PFF grades don't accurately reflect how good Marshal Yanda was in those early years. He was VERY GOOD even before he started getting recognition in 2014, and even in the last couple of years he was still dominant and those PFF grades act like he fell off.

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13 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I feel like those PFF grades don't accurately reflect how good Marshal Yanda was in those early years. He was VERY GOOD even before he started getting recognition in 2014, and even in the last couple of years he was still dominant and those PFF grades act like he fell off.

They were too busy watching Evan Mathis and claiming he was the GOAT.

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8 hours ago, Danand said:

I took a closer look at Bradley Bozeman and the dline/Judon yesterday. Have gone through the first half, and Bozeman did a much better job than I anticipated. The struggle on oline could be over Skura, but I will have to take a closer look.

I thought it was Broderick Washington who got pushed around on the dline, but it was actually Justin Ellis. He lost a couple of one-on-one matchups. Washington actually did fine from what I saw, which surprised me. The long run by Chubb was Calais Campbell coming onto the field late, and never seemed to get in position. Then Harrison took a really bad ankle and never squeezed the gap that allowed Chubb to run free.

Judon still doesn't win matchups against his direct opponent. McPhee still gets more push than Judon even though he works inside.

There was one play in the game, want to say 1st or 2nd quarter, where Washington legit pushed his olineman like 4-5 yards deep in the backfield and completely blew up a run.

Was impressive. Hopefully Madubuike is back by the Chiefs game.

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