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WindyCity

Things to Watch 2020: Offense

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26 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Imagine if Mitch had beaten Tom Brady out for the #1 QB spot?

Whatever helps Pace's ego I suppose, but Brady would have requested a trade already

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2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Imagine if Mitch had beaten Tom Brady out for the #1 QB spot?

They would have traded or cut Mitch. 

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12 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

They would have traded or cut Mitch. 

No reason to,  he had this year pretty Mitch fully guaranteed so with Brady we're would Bess steadied for cash already,  no reason to pay Tru to play elsewhere and have to get another back up QB. 

 

2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Whatever helps Pace's ego I suppose, but Brady would have requested a trade already

Pace would have been mobbed already. Lol

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On 9/8/2020 at 2:16 PM, dll2000 said:

Agreed.  Pace's unwillingness to invest in OTs early in draft or FA boggles my mind.  I don't know why he doesn't consider OT important.  

Massive weakness on the team.

 

 

 

UFA OTs, even RTs, are christly expensive which is why he locked up Leno and Massie when he did.  At best they're average but they have enough experience that with a slight boost from the OL overall we can slide by with them.  We did in 2018.

Drafting an NFL ready OT pretty much requires having high enough 1st round picks to get one of the top guys and we've lacked those picks for two years.  Are OTs taken after the cream of the crop all that much better in rounds 2-3 than they are in later rounds?  Look at Spriggs and he was high on our list but GB jumped us and took him.

Leno was a 7th round pick and he's turned out to be the most dependable OT we've had in the last decade or more while others who were drafted much earlier all failed.

It seems pretty obvious to me that OT is due for an upgrade and I suspect it will be a target next spring.

Edited by soulman

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5 hours ago, soulman said:

UFA OTs, even RTs, are christly expensive which is why he locked up Leno and Massie when he did.  At best they're average but they have enough experience that with a slight boost from the OL overall we can slide by with them.  We did in 2018.

Drafting an NFL ready OT pretty much requires having high enough 1st round picks to get one of the top guys and we've lacked those picks for two years.  Are OTs taken after the cream of the crop all that much better in rounds 2-3 than they are in later rounds?  Look at Spriggs and he was high on our list but GB jumped us and took him.

Leno was a 7th round pick and he's turned out to be the most dependable OT we've had in the last decade or more while others who were drafted much earlier all failed.

It seems pretty obvious to me that OT is due for an upgrade and I suspect it will be a target next spring.

Finding one takes multiple darts and he hasn’t invested in it.   He has been exceedingly lucky Leno and Massie have been durable for most part.

On other hand a large reason our run game has not worked in last 3 years is lack of good blocking at OT as it stands.

 

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14 hours ago, soulman said:

It seems pretty obvious to me that OT is due for an upgrade and I suspect it will be a target next spring.

I am expecting this as well.

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On 9/10/2020 at 1:48 PM, Sugashane said:

I expect the run game to improve but still to be a bottom 10 rushing - at least in efficiency. Their numbers will likely look a bit better when looking at totals just due to the volume of attempts. The OL simply is underwhelming. That being said while I am not sure Montgomery hits 1K yards I do believe he will be one of the better performers in YAC. Get a decent OL and a real QB and he can have a solid statline. 

 

Cohen takes a step forward again, Montgomery shows he is more like Howard than not (solid runner, lackluster receiver) 

 

ARob is a beast, I think Miller steps up but still shows a maddening lack of consistency. IDK if this will be more due to poor QB play or him concentration issues, but between the two he will be a frustrating player to have. 

 

I think Graham will put up a decent line, especially whenever Foles takes over. Kmet will put up decent numbers but likely has issues as a run blocker too. High effort but he was a mediocre as a blocker in college so being a decent blocker in the NFL is going to be a grind for him. I think he will be able to but in year one I just don't know. 

 

Moony makes some serious big plays even if they are irregular. 

 

We enter into the 2021 offseason with needs at 

QB

WR2

LT

RT

RG

 

 

pretty pessimistic take, Mitch will be AAALOT better ! this offense will actually be geared to his strengths. I expect a more savy 2018 Mitch for 2020 ...

He is a competent game manager who can rip off huge runs when everything breaks down ! heavy TE shorter passing middle of field  and TE downfield deep  graham and kmet will be HUGE factors 

who knows with Miller ??! uggh !  we should see a much more mature AM   but can he stay healthy for an entire season  ?? I'm expecting very nice years for Miller and Cohen. we are soooo far under radar and noone has seen ANYTHING from our offense .... Nagy going to catch alot of teams off guard   and then our D finish teams off !  CP returning kicks too !! 10 wins is very possible, even likely if we stay healthy Jaylon Johnson plays like Darelle Revis  ! NFC North WIDE OPEN  ! Dam Lions could win the Division this Season, it's a mess  !

 

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6 hours ago, SLCbear said:

pretty pessimistic take, Mitch will be AAALOT better ! this offense will actually be geared to his strengths. I expect a more savy 2018 Mitch for 2020 ...

He is a competent game manager who can rip off huge runs when everything breaks down ! heavy TE shorter passing middle of field  and TE downfield deep  graham and kmet will be HUGE factors 

who knows with Miller ??! uggh !  we should see a much more mature AM   but can he stay healthy for an entire season  ?? I'm expecting very nice years for Miller and Cohen. we are soooo far under radar and noone has seen ANYTHING from our offense .... Nagy going to catch alot of teams off guard   and then our D finish teams off !  CP returning kicks too !! 10 wins is very possible, even likely if we stay healthy Jaylon Johnson plays like Darelle Revis  ! NFC North WIDE OPEN  ! Dam Lions could win the Division this Season, it's a mess  !

 

I hope you're right man, but if he is just a competent game manager then to me he isn't your franchise guy he is what we are hoping to have in Foles - a top reserve. We can win a lot of games with that but need to improve that spot for long-term success. 

Part of my issue with him is my lack of faith in our OTs. Mediocre QBs need a damn good OL and solid playmakers around them to do well for more than a game or two. Foles IMO is proof of that. 2018 Mitch did best when he could move around and get outside the pocket, it let him alter the throwing lanes and that is hell for DBs. But to do that (and to let Nagy actually playcall with that) they have to do their job. Either the OT (Massie in particular) will need to be much better at sealing off his guy or they will have to use Kmet to help him - reducing Mitch's number of weapons. 

If Miller injures his shoulder again then I am seriously concerned about his career with the Bears. He is clearly talented and has the ability to be a playmaker week in and week out but if he is going to have a chronic issue then it will be hard for the Bears to be able to rely on him. I really hope he stays healthy and becomes the guy we thought he would after his rookie year. 

With JJ I am just going by commonality, without seeing him play at all that's all. I really like him and think he is going to be a solid player for us for a long time. Generally CBs struggle at the beginning, even Fuller struggled after having a few weeks of playmaking his rookie year. Do you think Revis is his ceiling? I can't seem to put a comparison together for him for some reason. He reminds me of Marcus Peters when he plays. Smart kid with a natural talent, really physical for being 6'0" and 200 lbs. Not a top end athletic guy but good enough to get the job done. Playmaker too,if not on the same level of Peters in college. Hopefully he is the CB version of EJax who just blows up and was overlooked due to his injury history. 

 

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8 hours ago, Sugashane said:

 

With JJ I am just going by commonality, without seeing him play at all that's all. I really like him and think he is going to be a solid player for us for a long time. Generally CBs struggle at the beginning, even Fuller struggled after having a few weeks of playmaking his rookie year. Do you think Revis is his ceiling? I can't seem to put a comparison together for him for some reason. He reminds me of Marcus Peters when he plays. Smart kid with a natural talent, really physical for being 6'0" and 200 lbs. Not a top end athletic guy but good enough to get the job done. Playmaker too,if not on the same level of Peters in college. Hopefully he is the CB version of EJax who just blows up and was overlooked due to his injury history. 

 

Other than USC game, I really liked JJ’s tape.   And scouting community basically universally loved him.  Biggest question mark is he is at risk for chronic shoulder issues.  Which is probably why he was a later 2nd round pick instead of a first rounder.

But I can tell you a story to illustrate why I like him since he got here and I’m optimistic.   I coached in a big Chicago Suburban league known as TCYFL.   Shortly after I started coaching there they decided to go to a two and three tier system of play.    Meaning better players were to play better players.   So scouting and evaluating talent to break your teams down became a thing.

So in Summer you have X amount of practices to judge talent and pick the elite team and rest of teams draft from remaining players.  A hiccup comes in when kids are playing baseball or what not and can’t be in early practices for whatever reason.

One year this kid came in late and it was selection day.  I was not HC that year (but I was really like a co-HC with buddy).  We had never seen him practice.   But I had watched the kid with other kids that day,  These were kids I knew were athletic and were already on elite team.  I watched how they interacted and how they deferred to him in play.   That was all info I really needed.  I pounded table for him and we took him sight unseen.   Long story short he was one of our best players for that year and several years after that.

I see same thing with Johnson when I see clips of him in practice.  We aren’t there to watch and judge, but the other players know.  So we should know too.  Or have a good inkling.  

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On 9/11/2020 at 5:49 AM, dll2000 said:

Finding one takes multiple darts and he hasn’t invested in it.   He has been exceedingly lucky Leno and Massie have been durable for most part.

On other hand a large reason our run game has not worked in last 3 years is lack of good blocking at OT as it stands.

 

He has invested.  Just not with high drafts picks.

Bars, Spriggs, Coward, Hambright, Simmons, Traore, and a few more we released.

Let's keep our fingers crossed Mitch shows enough this year to get a short extension so we can focus in OT in the draft.  We badly need to upgrade.

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3 hours ago, soulman said:

He has invested.  Just not with high drafts picks.

Bars, Spriggs, Coward, Hambright, Simmons, Traore, and a few more we released.

Let's keep our fingers crossed Mitch shows enough this year to get a short extension so we can focus in OT in the draft.  We badly need to upgrade.


While you're right that he has invested, it is to a massively disappointing degree. UFAs, 7th rounders and guys being signed for under $1 mil per year at a premier position are showing little urgency and little investment. I'm not just talking about this offseason either, he has drafted his highest OT at draft slot 183 (6th round) since 2015 when he chose Fabuluje. That's downright blasphemous IMO.  lol

 

It is like having a job that will match 5% of your salary for your 401K and you only invest $2 per paycheck. Yeah you invested, but to a near meaningless degree. 

 

My issue was that we didn't try to get someone higher in the draft in any of the last few to at least hope to groom for an OT spot. Leno and Massie weren't getting cut with $17+ mil dead cap between them, and they have experience and proven durability on their side, but depth is key there. Plus it is easier to move OTs inside than the opposite, so you can potentially bolster the whole OL by drafting OT prospects. Putting rookie OTs against the EDGE in this division is a hell of a request even with the bulked up TE corps. That is my concern if Leno and Massie flop this season. We cut them, get no solid bookends, and have to pray for rookies to come in and not get our QB killed. 

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For those of you who keep talking the tackle position, I have two questions for you.

Did any of you have a problem with the Mack trade? 

Did any of you have a problem with those positions after 2018 season? 

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1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said:

For those of you who keep talking the tackle position, I have two questions for you.

Did any of you have a problem with the Mack trade? 

Did any of you have a problem with those positions after 2018 season? 

I had problems with position before 2018.  Long too.  I thought he should have been traded long ago when his value was high.  First time I proposed it I had tomato’s thrown at me.   Because his value was high.  Bears fans never want to sell high.  Only when everyone knows a player is finished and you can get nothing.  Then they expect high rounders in return and are mad when they don’t get it.  

Mack trade was questionable in what they gave up, but I am not against it.   I don’t think Mack trade has stopped ability to upgrade Via FA or bring in legit prospects at OT through draft.  

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8 hours ago, Sugashane said:


While you're right that he has invested, it is to a massively disappointing degree. UFAs, 7th rounders and guys being signed for under $1 mil per year at a premier position are showing little urgency and little investment. I'm not just talking about this offseason either, he has drafted his highest OT at draft slot 183 (6th round) since 2015 when he chose Fabuluje. That's downright blasphemous IMO.  lol

 

It is like having a job that will match 5% of your salary for your 401K and you only invest $2 per paycheck. Yeah you invested, but to a near meaningless degree. 

 

My issue was that we didn't try to get someone higher in the draft in any of the last few to at least hope to groom for an OT spot. Leno and Massie weren't getting cut with $17+ mil dead cap between them, and they have experience and proven durability on their side, but depth is key there. Plus it is easier to move OTs inside than the opposite, so you can potentially bolster the whole OL by drafting OT prospects. Putting rookie OTs against the EDGE in this division is a hell of a request even with the bulked up TE corps. That is my concern if Leno and Massie flop this season. We cut them, get no solid bookends, and have to pray for rookies to come in and not get our QB killed. 

I think it's pretty simple. Pace chose Mack over drafting rookie OTs.  Without a 1st round pick two years running his best bet was to lock up Leno and Massie for less than either may have gotten as UFAs and hope for the best 'til he could fix the OL like he has the DL and OLB.  Not much else he could have done with his limitations.

Being realistic here our track record drafting 1st round OTs is more pitiful than our track record drafting QBs.  Fortunately that track record belongs to the departed JA so we can always hope Pace can do better.  He should have all of his Day One and Day Two picks next spring so I expect the OL will be a priority in the draft.

But I also believe that once you get passed the first four or five rookie OT prospects the rest are all a bit of a crap shoot.  Teams will draft from that crop based on whose a fit for their schemes many times leaving project types with more upside on the board.  Pace seems to have shopped more from that third list lately.

The NFL is full of failed 1st round OTs and has it share of successful starter who were drafted later in the draft.  So it seems to be that scheme fit and good coaching can go a long way towards developing good NFL OTs as long as they have the basic physical requirements needed to play on the edge.

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