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The Raider Appreciation Thread 📈


RaidersAreOne

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2 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I'm such a Perryman fan.

 

I thought he was for sure gone after this year, but I wouldn't mind bringing him back. He's solid af, and is a defense leader. He should be good for another 2-3 years. A nice 2-3 year deal could be possible. No promise for 3rd year, and won't break the bank 

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2 hours ago, jpaulthe1st said:

People constantly want to upgrade him and I don’t get it. He’s a playmaker and tone setter and not particularly expensive. People have short memories and don’t remember the years of Ben Heeney, Miles Burris, Curtis Lofton, etc. 

this is also why I said he is the Carr of the D in another thread lol. 

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5 hours ago, jpaulthe1st said:

People constantly want to upgrade him and I don’t get it. He’s a playmaker and tone setter and not particularly expensive. People have short memories and don’t remember the years of Ben Heeney, Miles Burris, Curtis Lofton, etc. 

No doubt he is very good in the run game, it is a sign of how the coaching staff view him that he is replaced by a rookie (Masterson) on passing downs though. I’d keep him but it’s probably a reality he moves on. 

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2 hours ago, Dessie said:

No doubt he is very good in the run game, it is a sign of how the coaching staff view him that he is replaced by a rookie (Masterson) on passing downs though. I’d keep him but it’s probably a reality he moves on. 

We get some solid guys with a defensive coordinator, we hire a new defensive coordinator, they want to bring in their own guys so we purge our roster. Wash, rinse, repeat. 

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2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Josh Jacobs is currently 2nd in the league in yards from scrimmage behind only Derrick Henry. I was listening to a podcast earlier and they said that he's going to get PAID this offseason. That was still such a stupid decision to decline his 5th year option at $8M. 

Disagree sorry. At the time the decision was made, given the preponderance of evidence I think it was the correct decision. Jacobs hadn't shown to be durable, hadn’t played as well as he has this year and RBs are simply not valuable and generally pretty easily replaced. Now, that doesn’t mean the decision is correct given the benefit of hindsight but at that time it was a very sensible, logical decision. 

This now begs the question do we overpay for something that can possibly be replicated quite cheaply in FA or the draft? This is a difficult decision. I would only pay him if you genuinely think he can be a top 5 RB and you also think he’s going to be fit and healthy for the duration of the contract…….

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13 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Disagree sorry. At the time the decision was made, given the preponderance of evidence I think it was the correct decision. Jacobs hadn't shown to be durable, hadn’t played as well as he has this year and RBs are simply not valuable and generally pretty easily replaced. Now, that doesn’t mean the decision is correct given the benefit of hindsight but at that time it was a very sensible, logical decision. 

This now begs the question do we overpay for something that can possibly be replicated quite cheaply in FA or the draft? This is a difficult decision. I would only pay him if you genuinely think he can be a top 5 RB and you also think he’s going to be fit and healthy for the duration of the contract…….

I'm still confused as to why Jacobs gets tagged as injury prone when he has only missed 6 games in four years. He has always been a 1,000+ yard player and if we would've accepted his option he would've made $8M, right on par with guys like Leonard Fournette and James Conner. Those two are less productive, older, and more injury prone than Jacobs so I think it would've been a fair deal even before his breakout this year. It's just funny to me that guys like Waller, Renfrow, and Carr all got a pass but Jacobs had to prove that he could fit in the system and has outplayed all three of them by a wide margin just like he did last year when the games actually counted and the playoffs were on the line. 

Jacobs is currently second in the league in yards from scrimmage behind Derrick Henry. I'm not sure how that's going to be easily replaced or found in free agency. Outside of CMAC who was just traded for a kings ransom, what RB's in the NFL are lighting it up for teams that signed them in free agency? 

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Choosing to pay and depend on the wrong players seems to be a theme with the new regime. 

Offensively we paid Carr, Renfrow, and Waller who have all disappointed. We had faith in Leatherwood, Parker, and Good being starters and none of them played a snap for us this year. 

Defensively we paid Jones and Nichols who have both been ghosts. 

Fits right in with their moves in New England with guys like Agholor, Bourne, Jonnu, etc. 

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26 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I'm still confused as to why Jacobs gets tagged as injury prone when he has only missed 6 games in four years. He has always been a 1,000+ yard player and if we would've accepted his option he would've made $8M, right on par with guys like Leonard Fournette and James Conner. Those two are less productive, older, and more injury prone than Jacobs so I think it would've been a fair deal even before his breakout this year. It's just funny to me that guys like Waller, Renfrow, and Carr all got a pass but Jacobs had to prove that he could fit in the system and has outplayed all three of them by a wide margin just like he did last year when the games actually counted and the playoffs were on the line. 

Jacobs is currently second in the league in yards from scrimmage behind Derrick Henry. I'm not sure how that's going to be easily replaced or found in free agency. Outside of CMAC who was just traded for a kings ransom, what RB's in the NFL are lighting it up for teams that signed them in free agency? 

I clearly didn't say injury prone :) I used the word durable as he played, but was often dinged up and ineffective or less effective when so.

I think you are looking at this with the benefit of hindsight. Would I pay him $8m now............yes, I probably would if he stays healthy the rest of the year, so that would have probably been a good deal, especially when compared to the likes of Fournette and Connor who are both overpaid and JJ is better than no question.

I don't think the others got a pass, I think it came down to McDaniels coming from a New England background where they use RB by committee a lot previously, rotate starters and draft replacements with regularity, adversely affecting his perceived value of RBs. That system doesn't value RBs that highly. Now, Jacobs has obviously been great this year and that has changed the script somewhat, that is the big question, can we replace that production with a rookie or FA? That is the difficult choice now. Do we overpay or do we risk getting significantly less production?

 

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3 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

I think you are looking at this with the benefit of hindsight. Would I pay him $8m now............yes, I probably would if he stays healthy the rest of the year, so that would have probably been a good deal, especially when compared to the likes of Fournette and Connor who are both overpaid and JJ is better than no question.

I don't think the others got a pass, I think it came down to McDaniels coming from a New England background where they use RB by committee a lot previously, rotate starters and draft replacements with regularity, adversely affecting his perceived value of RBs. That system doesn't value RBs that highly. Now, Jacobs has obviously been great this year and that has changed the script somewhat, that is the big question, can we replace that production with a rookie or FA? That is the difficult choice now. Do we overpay or do we risk getting significantly less production?

I'm personally not looking at it with the benefit of hindsight, I always thought that we should've exercised his 5th year option. I also find it funny how you're still questioning if he's even worth $8M when he has outproduced every player in the NFL other than Derrick Henry so far this season despite playing behind a terrible offensive line in an offense that has struggled at times. 

They definitely all got a pass, we paid all of them when they still had at least a year left on their deal when we had no idea how they'd produce in the new system. Waller was coming off of an injury plagued season yet got top TE money, Renfrow was coming off of his only year of high end production under questionable circumstances and got top WR money, and Carr struggled down the stretch and got elite QB money. When was the Patriots way dedicated to building around skill position players? 

Which is why it was dumb to decline his 5th year option. We could've secured a top tier starting RB for 2 years and then moved on but instead committed long term money to an aging TE who can't stay healthy and a WR who has never shown he can produce when we have other options in the passing game. 

Jacobs is gone now for sure but the one benefit is that we're really going to have to dedicate a ton of resources into the OL if we expect to get similar production from another RB.

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3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I'm personally not looking at it with the benefit of hindsight, I always thought that we should've exercised his 5th year option. I also find it funny how you're still questioning if he's even worth $8M when he has outproduced every player in the NFL other than Derrick Henry so far this season despite playing behind a terrible offensive line in an offense that has struggled at times. 

They definitely all got a pass, we paid all of them when they still had at least a year left on their deal when we had no idea how they'd produce in the new system. Waller was coming off of an injury plagued season yet got top TE money, Renfrow was coming off of his only year of high end production under questionable circumstances and got top WR money, and Carr struggled down the stretch and got elite QB money. When was the Patriots way dedicated to building around skill position players? 

Which is why it was dumb to decline his 5th year option. We could've secured a top tier starting RB for 2 years and then moved on but instead committed long term money to an aging TE who can't stay healthy and a WR who has never shown he can produce when we have other options in the passing game. 

Jacobs is gone now for sure but the one benefit is that we're really going to have to dedicate a ton of resources into the OL if we expect to get similar production from another RB.

I don't think I was questioning if he's 'even worth $8m', I think I said I would probably pay him if he stays healthy. That is quite reasonable, isn't it? Obviously, you'd have to reassess if he gets some nagging issues like he has in years past as that would be a pattern. You would be remiss if you didn't factor that in.

I can't really comment on the contracts given to others as what you're saying there does not contradict with my opinions on them really, I think you're thinking of other people's views on those contracts :) I agree Renfrow had an exceptional season last year but he was in unusual circumstances and his stats were artificially bolstered, especially as we then went out and got Adams so his targets would necessarily be less. Waller I agree with, and Carr was a slight overpay. You're welcome to go back and see what I thought about those, but I think Jacobs is a stand-alone situation, given the New England history with the RB position. I can at least see your point though, just your phrasing 'got a pass' may have confused me a little 😁.

I will say it is hindsight though, sorry, as at the time the decision was made Josh Jacobs certainly wasn't considered a 'top tier starting RB'. He had flashed potential for sure but he had been playing at less than 100% regularly, didn't have that big play threat most elite RBs possess and though his rookie year was great, the last two had been pretty average if we're being honest. Our FO took a pragmatic approach and Jacobs has come good and now it looks like they might have to pay extra or risk losing some production.  

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Just now, Darbsk said:

I don't think I was questioning if he's 'even worth $8m', I think I said I would probably pay him if he stays healthy. That is quite reasonable, isn't it? Obviously, you'd have to reassess if he gets some nagging issues like he has in years past as that would be a pattern. You would be remiss if you didn't factor that in.

I can't really comment on the contracts given to others as what you're saying there does not contradict with my opinions on them really, I think you're thinking of other people's views on those contracts :) I agree Renfrow had an exceptional season last year but he was in unusual circumstances and his stats were artificially bolstered, especially as we then went out and got Adams so his targets would necessarily be less. Waller I agree with, and Carr was a slight overpay. You're welcome to go back and see what I thought about those, but I think Jacobs is a stand-alone situation, given the New England history with the RB position. I can at least see your point though, just your phrasing 'got a pass' may have confused me a little 😁.

I will say it is hindsight though, sorry, as at the time the decision was made Josh Jacobs certainly wasn't considered a 'top tier starting RB'. He had flashed potential for sure but he had been playing at less than 100% regularly, didn't have that big play threat most elite RBs possess and though his rookie year was great, the last two had been pretty average if we're being honest. Our FO took a pragmatic approach and Jacobs has come good and now it looks like they might have to pay extra or risk losing some production.  

At this point though he has outplayed what we can afford to pay him. 

I agree with all of your points and it is definitely risky to pay a RB. But one of the reasons you take a RB in the first round is so that you can get that 5th year and then move on. Especially for a RB that had been a 1,000+ yard player ever year of his career up until that point. We didn't want to pay him $8M for an extra year and now if they want to keep him he'd likely cost almost $50M over the next four seasons.

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1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

At this point though he has outplayed what we can afford to pay him. 

I agree with all of your points and it is definitely risky to pay a RB. But one of the reasons you take a RB in the first round is so that you can get that 5th year and then move on. Especially for a RB that had been a 1,000+ yard player ever year of his career up until that point. We didn't want to pay him $8M for an extra year and now if they want to keep him he'd likely cost almost $50M over the next four seasons.

Yeh, you're right. At the time I thought it was a sensible decision, maybe not so now. As you say, a long-term contact for a RB is a very risky proposition. Even a really good one can come unstuck in a couple years. Realistically, we'll probably move on and try and draft or sign a vet who we hope together with White can replicate his production. 

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1 minute ago, Darbsk said:

Yeh, you're right. At the time I thought it was a sensible decision, maybe not so now. As you say, a long-term contact for a RB is a very risky proposition. Even a really good one can come unstuck in a couple years. Realistically, we'll probably move on and try and draft or sign a vet who we hope together with White can replicate his production. 

Even as someone that loves JJ, I wouldn't commit to him long term on a big contract. But yeah his time here is done, I'm assuming that we'll target someone that JMD is familiar with like Damien Harris or Sony Michel to pair with Zamir White next season. I'd love to take a look at someone like Alexander Mattison though.

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