Nabbs4u Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) Well I for one hope to see the Greatness of that Rams offense on full display this Sunday and the $20M dollar Man earning every penny. Next week, 💩 the Bed please. Sincerely yours, Nabbs! Edited September 12, 2020 by Nabbs4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Except for the fact that QB play has a huge impact on YAC. Anybody who knows football knows that. But I'm glad you're at least admitting that you "went down the analytical rabbit hole" having already decided what Goff was. It's no surprise that you analyze the metrics through that lens. Yea, I got into analytics specifically to make a case against Goff.  That’s how much I hate the guy. Lol. Okay 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 26 minutes ago, Gmen said: Yea, I got into analytics specifically to make a case against Goff.  That’s how much I hate the guy. Lol. Okay 😂 Not what I said. I said you already had made up your mind about Goff before you looked into the metrics. That's why you have drawn the conclusions you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 Just now, jrry32 said: Not what I said. I said you already had made up your mind about Goff before you looked into the metrics. That's why you have drawn the conclusions you have. Lets forget the metrics for a second.... focus on the eye test. The eye test says Goff is absolutely fine when he's protected, but move him off his spot and he struggles mightily unlike Wentz, Mahomes, Jackson, Wilson, etc. I want my QB to be able to make something out of nothing if everything is going array around him. That is what the NFL is moving towards. Quarterbacks who can make plays outside of the pocket and structure of the offense. Goff is a fine and even good QB if everything is going right around him. With his coach in his ear up before the headset cuts out, good receivers, and well protected he can put up points and do what is needed in McVay's offense, but really he isn't a top 10 QB and he holds back McVay's offense from its true potential. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 Just now, jrry32 said: Not what I said. I said you already had made up your mind about Goff before you looked into the metrics. That's why you have drawn the conclusions you have. You made up your mind about Goff four years ago. You’ve been feeding everyone the ‘Goff is great’ line for years even though the data suggest otherwise. After the 2018 season you said there isn’t a young QB you’d take over Goff. This was AFTER Mahomes’ historic season.  But yea, I’m the one with the bias here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said: Lets forget the metrics for a second.... focus on the eye test. Let’s not.  Objective measures >>> subjective takes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Gmen said: You made up your mind about Goff four years ago. You’ve been feeding everyone the ‘Goff is great’ line for years even though the data suggest otherwise. After the 2018 season you said there isn’t a young QB you’d take over Goff. This was AFTER Mahomes’ historic season.  But yea, I’m the one with the bias here I didn't deny my bias. I freely admitted it just a few posts ago. Like I told you then, I'm not doing mental gymnastics over the metrics I introduced to justify my take. And you should really get it right. I made up my mind about Goff more than four years ago, before the Rams even drafted him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Gmen said: Let’s not.  Objective measures >>> subjective takes You can make metrics fit your arguments. I'm pretty sure @jrry32 could do the same and find stats that paint Goff in a better light. What I said isn't really debatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I made up my mind about Goff more than four years ago, before the Rams even drafted him. Respect for dying on the hill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Gmen said: Let’s not.  Objective measures >>> subjective takes Unless that objective measure shows Goff in the classes of Deshaun Watson and Russell Wilson. Then, it only proves that Goff is surrounded by greatness. 10 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said: Lets forget the metrics for a second.... focus on the eye test. The eye test says Goff is absolutely fine when he's protected, but move him off his spot and he struggles mightily unlike Wentz, Mahomes, Jackson, Wilson, etc. I want my QB to be able to make something out of nothing if everything is going array around him. That is what the NFL is moving towards. Quarterbacks who can make plays outside of the pocket and structure of the offense. Goff is a fine and even good QB if everything is going right around him. With his coach in his ear up before the headset cuts out, good receivers, and well protected he can put up points and do what is needed in McVay's offense, but really he isn't a top 10 QB and he holds back McVay's offense from its true potential. Goff is a pocket passer. If you want to disrupt his game, you pressure him. The same is/was true of Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees, etc. The thing about pocket passers is that they tend to only get better as they age (until they hit a wall late in their careers). Mahomes and Russ are just special talents. Can't take anything away from them. But Lamar and Wentz have styles that don't age well. We're already seeing Wentz struggle with injuries. Simply put, outside of Wilson, none of these guys have hit their primes or peaks yet. We can't say for sure what any of them are (I think we can say confidently that Mahomes looks like a first ballot HOFer, though). What I can say is that Goff has had a very promising start to his career and has a skill-set that should continue to improve and age well. Edited September 12, 2020 by jrry32 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: Goff is a pocket passer. If you want to disrupt his game, you pressure him. The same is/was true of Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees, etc. The thing about pocket passers is that they tend to only get better as they age (until they hit a wall late in their careers). Mahomes and Russ are just special talents. Can't take anything away from them. But Lamar and Wentz have styles that don't age well. We're already seeing Wentz struggle with injuries. Simply put, outside of Wilson, none of these guys have hit their primes or peaks yet. We can't say for sure what any of them are. What I can say is that Goff has had a very promising start to his career and has a skill-set that should continue to improve and age well. Can't really disagree with what you said honestly. But, I do think the NFL has started to move away from strictly pocket passers. You have to be pretty great to be a long term franchise QB nowadays. Maybe Goff can be that.... but I have my doubts. Wouldn't surprise me if the Rams moved on at some point. I think you guys missed your window during his rookie contract, because I don't believe he's a guy you're gonna build a SB winning team with him on a 30+ million dollar contract which is the number now for a franchise QB and even if you guys could pull it off I think it would take some really great drafting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said: Can't really disagree with what you said honestly. But, I do think the NFL has started to move away from strictly pocket passers. You have to be pretty great to be a long term franchise QB nowadays. Maybe Goff can be that.... but I have my doubts. Wouldn't surprise me if the Rams moved on at some point. I think you guys missed your window during his rookie contract, because I don't believe he's a guy you're gonna build a SB winning team with him on a 30+ million dollar contract which is the number now for a franchise QB and even if you guys could pull it off I think it would take some really great drafting. We shall see. Goff still hasn't reached an age where his long-term potential is entirely clear yet. People remember guys like Brees, Manning, Brady, etc. from their prime forward. They forget the stretches of average play before that. I'm not saying Goff is that good. But he doesn't lack any of the skills to be great. It's all about development. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 2 hours ago, jrry32 said: Unless that objective measure shows Goff in the classes of Deshaun Watson and Russell Wilson. Then, it only proves that Goff is surrounded by greatness. And here are the analytics showing Goff was the 5th highest beneficiary in YAC EPA over expectation over the past 5 seasons. Link to the model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said: Lets forget the metrics for a second.... focus on the eye test. The eye test says Goff is absolutely fine when he's protected, but move him off his spot and he struggles mightily unlike Wentz, Mahomes, Jackson, Wilson, etc. I want my QB to be able to make something out of nothing if everything is going array around him. That is what the NFL is moving towards. Quarterbacks who can make plays outside of the pocket and structure of the offense. Goff is a fine and even good QB if everything is going right around him. With his coach in his ear up before the headset cuts out, good receivers, and well protected he can put up points and do what is needed in McVay's offense, but really he isn't a top 10 QB and he holds back McVay's offense from its true potential. Idk man, I gotta see Wentz actually play more than a handful of snaps before I start saying he's better than Goff at all...Only thing I see him do outside of the pocket is go into a tent and not come back Edited September 12, 2020 by ronjon1990 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 58 minutes ago, Gmen said: And here are the analytics showing Goff was the 5th highest beneficiary in YAC EPA over expectation over the past 5 seasons. Link to the model Ah. This objective measure only has him in a class with Mahomes, Rivers, Lamar, and Jimmy. Terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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