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2020 Jets Season: Misc. Talk


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3 hours ago, doumeyer said:

I think we are starting to see chips in Joe Douglas armor suit.  I hope we are wrong but the facts don't lie.

His teams won 3 Super Bowls and made the playoffs 13 times in 20 years. Who cares if he has a stud wide receiver. I’ve been a Jet fan a few years less than you (1965) and I know I would have love that record over the last 20

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1 hour ago, Heymangold said:

i'm not saying there shouldn't be offensive talent here, i'm saying that even if robby was here, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing now. i was never a fan of him either, that's why i'm not mad he's not here.

That's debatable... with a healthy Darnold AND Gase calling plays... he still had a decent season last year in those games.

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So Key and JWill have been talking A LOT about JD's comments regarding the future with Darnold the last couple days. And Key is for sure pro Darnold. Not sure if thats bc he's a USC boy or what... but he says a GM would never make that commitment statement about Darnold being the future of this franchise without them actually being the future of the franchise. JWill is in the thought that JD kinda just said that bc that's what a GM has to say there. But Key did have a good point bc CLE's GM was asked a very similar question regarding Baker and he wasn't committed to Baker in his statements. When Baker has been twice as good as Darnold this season. And CLE isn't in the draft position we will be in. Another thing JWill has said is that if you look at JDs comments after saying Darnold is the future... is that he talks about progression for everyone. So JWill seems to think that's JDs out. That he can say Darnold didn't progress the way the franchise wanted and that's why they eventually move on from him (trade him).

 

My thoughts are very in between on this. I still stand by that Darnold isn't the issue here. I think he has been awful this year no doubt... but he has had very little help. From the coaching, to personel around him. He is being given 0 favors. And bc of that his confidence is at 0. And any athlete playing with 0 confidence wont look good IMO. And I also know I'm in the minority when I think there are a few winnable games on this schedule the rest of the way. So drafting 1 or 2 isn't a lock.

BUT.....

I totally get and can be on board, that if we are drafting 1 or 2 to draft TLaw or Fields, trade Darnold and start over. Get a draft pick for Darnold and continue to rebuild that offense. Both those QBs are arguably better QB prospects than what darnold was. We will be drafting high regardless. So it begs the question that is sticking with Darnold and drafting a guy like Sewell or Chase making us so much better than the team fielded right now?

 

So there's definitely 2 sides to this. IMO I think JD crapped the bed by saying Darnold was the future. He could have just said Darnold is our guy and we will see how he progresses this season and going forward. Saying he was the future was 100% wrong IMO. He could have easily left the door open to both darnold still our QB in 2021 AND the option of a new rookie QB. Instead he made a very one sided comment and it only will create unneeded drama. 

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24 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

So Key and JWill have been talking A LOT about JD's comments regarding the future with Darnold the last couple days. And Key is for sure pro Darnold. Not sure if thats bc he's a USC boy or what... but he says a GM would never make that commitment statement about Darnold being the future of this franchise without them actually being the future of the franchise. JWill is in the thought that JD kinda just said that bc that's what a GM has to say there. But Key did have a good point bc CLE's GM was asked a very similar question regarding Baker and he wasn't committed to Baker in his statements. When Baker has been twice as good as Darnold this season. And CLE isn't in the draft position we will be in. Another thing JWill has said is that if you look at JDs comments after saying Darnold is the future... is that he talks about progression for everyone. So JWill seems to think that's JDs out. That he can say Darnold didn't progress the way the franchise wanted and that's why they eventually move on from him (trade him).

 

My thoughts are very in between on this. I still stand by that Darnold isn't the issue here. I think he has been awful this year no doubt... but he has had very little help. From the coaching, to personel around him. He is being given 0 favors. And bc of that his confidence is at 0. And any athlete playing with 0 confidence wont look good IMO. And I also know I'm in the minority when I think there are a few winnable games on this schedule the rest of the way. So drafting 1 or 2 isn't a lock.

BUT.....

I totally get and can be on board, that if we are drafting 1 or 2 to draft TLaw or Fields, trade Darnold and start over. Get a draft pick for Darnold and continue to rebuild that offense. Both those QBs are arguably better QB prospects than what darnold was. We will be drafting high regardless. So it begs the question that is sticking with Darnold and drafting a guy like Sewell or Chase making us so much better than the team fielded right now?

 

So there's definitely 2 sides to this. IMO I think JD crapped the bed by saying Darnold was the future. He could have just said Darnold is our guy and we will see how he progresses this season and going forward. Saying he was the future was 100% wrong IMO. He could have easily left the door open to both darnold still our QB in 2021 AND the option of a new rookie QB. Instead he made a very one sided comment and it only will create unneeded drama. 

I think you are overreacting to the comment.  Only person on planet earth that thinks the Jets are committed to Sam in 2021 is Key.  There is no drama.  We all know what is about to happen.  JD did the right thing actually because if we win a game or 2 down the stretch and fall to 3 JD can say he told you he was committed to Sam and then draft Sewell.  Have to stay committed to Sam until he's sure he's got one of the 2 QBs.

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1 minute ago, Rockice_8 said:

I think you are overreacting to the comment.  Only person on planet earth that thinks the Jets are committed to Sam in 2021 is Key.  There is no drama.  We all know what is about to happen.  JD did the right thing actually because if we win a game or 2 down the stretch and fall to 3 JD can say he told you he was committed to Sam and then draft Sewell.  Have to stay committed to Sam until he's sure he's got one of the 2 QBs.

And there is a way to say that without saying he's the future. He could have said as I said that he's our guy and hopefully he just keeps progressing. To say he's the future was going too far.

I agree that if we are at the 1st pick there's no way we dont draft TLaw. But if we end up 2nd I don't know what we do.

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57 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

So Key and JWill have been talking A LOT about JD's comments regarding the future with Darnold the last couple days. And Key is for sure pro Darnold. Not sure if thats bc he's a USC boy or what... but he says a GM would never make that commitment statement about Darnold being the future of this franchise without them actually being the future of the franchise. JWill is in the thought that JD kinda just said that bc that's what a GM has to say there. But Key did have a good point bc CLE's GM was asked a very similar question regarding Baker and he wasn't committed to Baker in his statements. When Baker has been twice as good as Darnold this season. And CLE isn't in the draft position we will be in. Another thing JWill has said is that if you look at JDs comments after saying Darnold is the future... is that he talks about progression for everyone. So JWill seems to think that's JDs out. That he can say Darnold didn't progress the way the franchise wanted and that's why they eventually move on from him (trade him).

 

My thoughts are very in between on this. I still stand by that Darnold isn't the issue here. I think he has been awful this year no doubt... but he has had very little help. From the coaching, to personel around him. He is being given 0 favors. And bc of that his confidence is at 0. And any athlete playing with 0 confidence wont look good IMO. And I also know I'm in the minority when I think there are a few winnable games on this schedule the rest of the way. So drafting 1 or 2 isn't a lock.

BUT.....

I totally get and can be on board, that if we are drafting 1 or 2 to draft TLaw or Fields, trade Darnold and start over. Get a draft pick for Darnold and continue to rebuild that offense. Both those QBs are arguably better QB prospects than what darnold was. We will be drafting high regardless. So it begs the question that is sticking with Darnold and drafting a guy like Sewell or Chase making us so much better than the team fielded right now?

 

So there's definitely 2 sides to this. IMO I think JD crapped the bed by saying Darnold was the future. He could have just said Darnold is our guy and we will see how he progresses this season and going forward. Saying he was the future was 100% wrong IMO. He could have easily left the door open to both darnold still our QB in 2021 AND the option of a new rookie QB. Instead he made a very one sided comment and it only will create unneeded drama. 

I disagree big time for several reason.

1. Just because the Browns GM does not say it and the Jets GM does means NOTHING. They are to different people with 2 different players.

2. Sam has shown zero growth this year and has even gone backwards. 

3. When Sam has had time he does not push the ball down field and when he does his throws look pretty bad. 

4. No way is a GM going to say anything bad about his players. This would only hurt their trade value and show that you don't have faith in your team.

5. When a reporter says "Is Sam the future QB of this franchise?" You have to say yes no matter what. You say No then question will come up as why not bench him for Morgan or are you tanking for TLaw and that looks bad too. 

In the end I think people are WAY to much into what JD said. He said what I thought he would say and we will be picking 1 and T Law will be a jet. I am about 95% positive on that and you can quote me on that. 

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If JD thinks Sam is the future and we actually bypass QB, I am barely OK with that.  I think Sam can be better in a better situation, but I have serious doubts he is the franchise QB we need.

If JD picks Lawrence or Fields and dumps Sam,  I am good with that for obvious reasons.

But here's the thing; if JD passes on a generational talent like Lawrence or a good talent like Fields and Sam flops after building around him, he will be crucified in the media and by fans.  He will most likely be crucified even is Sam is OK and the other two go onto to star in the league.  He HAS to draft one of the QB's and ditch Sam.  His credibility is riding on it.  Hell, some of us still complain about bypassing Marino and picking OBrien and that was over 30 years ago.  At least then, OBrien was an unknown.  Sam is a known and has not showed progress.

Conversely,  if Sam stars after a rebuild and the other two are Meh, JD will look like a genius.  But what is the probability of that happening?  My gut says low vs. the above.

Last thing, cap flexibility.  Sam is due his 5th year option by May, 2021.  That is what, $25M?  Does JD have enough confidence to offer that option?  Would you?  If he does not, well he kind of lied about "Sam is the future".  A new QB will be cap friendly for 4 years.  That is a big deal.

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41 minutes ago, xrade said:

If JD thinks Sam is the future and we actually bypass QB, I am barely OK with that.  I think Sam can be better in a better situation, but I have serious doubts he is the franchise QB we need.

If JD picks Lawrence or Fields and dumps Sam,  I am good with that for obvious reasons.

But here's the thing; if JD passes on a generational talent like Lawrence or a good talent like Fields and Sam flops after building around him, he will be crucified in the media and by fans.  He will most likely be crucified even is Sam is OK and the other two go onto to star in the league.  He HAS to draft one of the QB's and ditch Sam.  His credibility is riding on it.  Hell, some of us still complain about bypassing Marino and picking OBrien and that was over 30 years ago.  At least then, OBrien was an unknown.  Sam is a known and has not showed progress.

Conversely,  if Sam stars after a rebuild and the other two are Meh, JD will look like a genius.  But what is the probability of that happening?  My gut says low vs. the above.

Last thing, cap flexibility.  Sam is due his 5th year option by May, 2021.  That is what, $25M?  Does JD have enough confidence to offer that option?  Would you?  If he does not, well he kind of lied about "Sam is the future".  A new QB will be cap friendly for 4 years.  That is a big deal.

That last point is HUGE and what's not mentioned much. BUT... players 5th year options starting in his draft year (2018) are performance based not draft spot based. So I actually don't know how much his 5th year option is. But I think it's safe to say that his play this season won't warrant whatever that number probably is. And that option will have to be picked up in May of 2021 as you said. Which not sure where that date falls in line with the draft. But we would at that point have a clear picture of who we got in FA, hopefully a new HC, who declared in the draft QB wise and what pick we have. All things that big time play into that decision.

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56 minutes ago, xrade said:

But here's the thing; if JD passes on a generational talent like Lawrence or a good talent like Fields and Sam flops after building around him, he will be crucified in the media and by fans.  He will most likely be crucified even is Sam is OK and the other two go onto to star in the league.  He HAS to draft one of the QB's and ditch Sam.  His credibility is riding on it.  Hell, some of us still complain about bypassing Marino and picking OBrien and that was over 30 years ago.  At least then, OBrien was an unknown.  Sam is a known and has not showed progress.

Unless you are the Chiefs, maybe Texans but they don't have that option, Baltimore, Seattle, Chargers, Cardinals or Bengals, every team would get crucified if they passed up on Lawrence.  If we are in position to land him or Fields we have to.  It's unfortunate we messed up another QB but at least we would be starting with a franchise level QB and already have a potential perennial Pro Bowler at LT.  Even if we all believe in Sam and they believe in Sam, JD didn't draft him and we have the next generational QB out there.

Now if Jacksonville offers up the farm and we can get Fields then boy oh boy that's a helluva debate to have.

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36 minutes ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

Unless you are the Chiefs, maybe Texans but they don't have that option, Baltimore, Seattle, Chargers, Cardinals or Bengals, every team would get crucified if they passed up on Lawrence.  If we are in position to land him or Fields we have to.  It's unfortunate we messed up another QB but at least we would be starting with a franchise level QB and already have a potential perennial Pro Bowler at LT.  Even if we all believe in Sam and they believe in Sam, JD didn't draft him and we have the next generational QB out there.

Now if Jacksonville offers up the farm and we can get Fields then boy oh boy that's a helluva debate to have.

Strongly is agree. You have to take T Law no matter what the offer is. No way I'm trading away the number 1 pick. Fields might be good but T Law is a lot better prospect. I think He is only second too Elway. 

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The timing is the hard part in all this. Sam's contract situation makes it even tougher to stick with him along with the idea of him flopping. Sam could have a good year and then we'll have to decide if he's worth a big deal or if it was a fluke. The only argument for passing both Fields & Lawrence is if we hire a coach that has developed and turned around a QB's career, but we would still get ripped for it until Sam's career is turned around. 

All I'm hoping for right now is we work on our environment to make a new QB feel like we will get it right this time and they could flourish here. I'm seriously worried about TL pulling a Eli. 

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Big thing here is money. Next year we would have to pay Sam big money; money that needs invested in so many areas on this team. 
We could flip Sm for picks, use his money to get three/four quality players in FA and have a franchise QB under team control for 5yrs on a cheap (for a qb) deal. 
 

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22 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

And there is a way to say that without saying he's the future. He could have said as I said that he's our guy and hopefully he just keeps progressing. To say he's the future was going too far.

I agree that if we are at the 1st pick there's no way we dont draft TLaw. But if we end up 2nd I don't know what we do.

Gettleman did say "we didn't sign Odell to trade him"  and look what happened a couple months later...

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