2020 Jets Season: Misc. Talk

[xrade]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Absolutely. As I keep saying..... I hope he becomes a very good edge for us and a difference maker. Even if it’s only in certain packages.

 

But I will still reiterate.... that stat is misleading. Truth is he has 1 sack in 10 games. So he’s not winning as much as that stat would make it appear.

I need to concentrate on Huff a little more against Seattle.  I want to see if he wins his blocking matchups when rushing the QB or if he is getting washed out.  I will do the same with Zuniga.

[KingOfNewYork]

7 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

My point is merely that for me its a stat that’s misleading.

Its a stat that would make you think he’s producing, when he’s not.

So when he starts producing... I’ll entertain his win rate and other rather BS stats.

What’s misleading about a win rate stat? It’s literally a stat that’s telling us he’s winning his assignments at a good clip. We get some more interior pressure or a legit guy opposite him and then maybe those pressures turn into sacks, etc..

 

[Bobby816]

8 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

What’s misleading about a win rate stat? It’s literally a stat that’s telling us he’s winning his assignments at a good clip. We get some more interior pressure or a legit guy opposite him and then maybe those pressures turn into sacks, etc..

 

The guy is already playing with a very talented interior DL. So that "excuse" doesn't work for me (Q, Foley and JFM are very good). And I'm sure having a guy opposite him could only help. But it's not like Huff is getting double teamed and having a good edge opposite him, takes the double team away from him. He's already getting 1 on 1 matchups.

 

Point is... he apparently has a win rate that's respectable for a rookie. And that's positive. But it isn't amounting to results. Maybe it will down the line. But for now it doesn't.

[NJC33]

43 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

The guy is already playing with a very talented interior DL. So that "excuse" doesn't work for me (Q, Foley and JFM are very good). And I'm sure having a guy opposite him could only help. But it's not like Huff is getting double teamed and having a good edge opposite him, takes the double team away from him. He's already getting 1 on 1 matchups.

 

Point is... he apparently has a win rate that's respectable for a rookie. And that's positive. But it isn't amounting to results. Maybe it will down the line. But for now it doesn't.

Not sure you realize how contradicting this is - You're discrediting Huff due to a lack of production (stats) -  JFM (5 tackles, 1 sack) is 'very good', but Huff (11 tackles, 1 sack) isn't producing? 

I think we can agree that JFM has been disruptive, which goes show how using stats to quantify production is misleading. 

[Bobby816]

2 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

Not sure you realize how contradicting this is - You're discrediting Huff due to a lack of production (stats) -  JFM (5 tackles, 1 sack) is 'very good', but Huff (11 tackles, 1 sack) isn't producing? 

I think we can agree that JFM has been disruptive, which goes show how using stats to quantify production is misleading. 

But they play 2 very different positions. An edge rusher is set up to make more sacks/plays than that of an interior defender.

So NO I'm not contradicting in what I'm saying. I can compare him to his peers if you want (who aren't good). He has about the same production as them sack wise bc they get about double the snap total as him and both have 2 sacks on the year. And I don't see anyone raving how good Jenkins and Basham are. 

[NJC33]

13 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

But they play 2 very different positions. An edge rusher is set up to make more sacks/plays than that of an interior defender.

So NO I'm not contradicting in what I'm saying. I can compare him to his peers if you want (who aren't good). He has about the same production as them sack wise bc they get about double the snap total as him and both have 2 sacks on the year. And I don't see anyone raving how good Jenkins and Basham are. 

Sounds like you're playing favorites here.

A few posts back you referenced Leo's lack of production - he's an interior defender no? So production mattered for him, but not JFM? Also, to say they play 'very different' positions? They're both DEs in our base 3-4 alignment. In fairness, they're deployed differently, but it's not like one's exactly a NT and the other a 3-4 OLB.  

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, NJC33 said:

Sounds like you're playing favorites here.

A few posts back you referenced Leo's lack of production - he's an interior defender no? So production mattered for him, but not JFM? Also, to say they play 'very different' positions? They're both DEs in our base 3-4 alignment. In fairness, they're deployed differently, but it's not like one's exactly a NT and the other a 3-4 OLB.  

JFM is 6'4" 285lbs and Huff is 6'3" 250lbs

They play very different games. It would be like comparing an in the box safety to a coverage slot CB and comparing their stats bc they're both in the secondary IMO.

My point in bringing up guys in the past was not comparing Leo, Sheldon, etc to that of Huff. It was comparing the fact that those guys were hyped at times bc of stats. And not stats that equaled results. Stats that showed win rate, disruption, etc. But they never amounted to results while in our jersey. So my point was that I quite frankly dont care for these BS stats. I want results. And for me this stat with Huff, does not show what he is. The stat would make you think his this disruptive player thats getting to the QB. But his results say otherwise. 

[jetsfan4life51]

JFM isn't getting put in the top 10 for anything and his game isn't just about getting sacks.  Huff is here specifically to put pressure on the QB.  While it is nice to have that stat, it's almost worthless because it hasn't translated into anything.

What I take from it is I hope these last 4 games he gets a bigger opportunity.  Very hard to flash in limited snaps.  

[NJC33]

39 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

JFM is 6'4" 285lbs and Huff is 6'3" 250lbs

They play very different games. It would be like comparing an in the box safety to a coverage slot CB and comparing their stats bc they're both in the secondary IMO.

My point in bringing up guys in the past was not comparing Leo, Sheldon, etc to that of Huff. It was comparing the fact that those guys were hyped at times bc of stats. And not stats that equaled results. Stats that showed win rate, disruption, etc. But they never amounted to results while in our jersey. So my point was that I quite frankly dont care for these BS stats. I want results. And for me this stat with Huff, does not show what he is. The stat would make you think his this disruptive player thats getting to the QB. But his results say otherwise. 

Right, and what stats does JFM have that = results exactly? Just trying to understand how you can characterize JFM as 'very good', and yet be so box score oriented as it relates to every other player previously mentioned.

[Bobby816]

6 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

Right, and what stats does JFM have that = results exactly? Just trying to understand how you can characterize JFM as 'very good', and yet be so box score oriented as it relates to every other player previously mentioned.

I said the Interior DL was good. I never singled out JFM... YOU DID. I put him in the same group as Foley and Q. All of them together.

 

This is what I said if you don't remember (from not long ago). So please show me where I highlighted JFM in this like he's a big production guy? Please do.

 

"The guy is already playing with a very talented interior DL. So that "excuse" doesn't work for me (Q, Foley and JFM are very good). And I'm sure having a guy opposite him could only help. But it's not like Huff is getting double teamed and having a good edge opposite him, takes the double team away from him. He's already getting 1 on 1 matchups."

[NJC33]

4 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I said the Interior DL was good. I never singled out JFM... YOU DID. I put him in the same group as Foley and Q. All of them together.

 

This is what I said if you don't remember (from not long ago). So please show me where I highlighted JFM in this like he's a big production guy? Please do.

 

"The guy is already playing with a very talented interior DL. So that "excuse" doesn't work for me (Q, Foley and JFM are very good). And I'm sure having a guy opposite him could only help. But it's not like Huff is getting double teamed and having a good edge opposite him, takes the double team away from him. He's already getting 1 on 1 matchups."

"(Q, Foley and JFM are very good)" that doesn't insinuate anything about JFM? Gotcha.

[Bobby816]

56 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

"(Q, Foley and JFM are very good)" that doesn't insinuate anything about JFM? Gotcha.

Good to see you finally understand after a day.

[JetsandI]

Pass Rush Win Rate

Pass Rush Productivity

 

If anyone doesn't understand that then there is a problem.

KOT's post about Huff suggests that there is a developing hope for Huff to be an efficient pass rusher as he gets more experience. It doesn't guarantee that Huff will be as nearly good as Robert Quinn or someone in his peer.

Because Jets' recent history, it is easy to dismiss PRWR for rookie campaign. However, you forget how happy you are with JD's players' progression.  You want to prove that you are truly with JD then you should forget Jets' recent history. 

 

Surely, UDFA player is way ahead of first round player in PRWR category but it doesn't erase the fact that first round WR burned UDFA CB. LOL.

[Bobby816]

2 minutes ago, JetsandI said:

Pass Rush Win Rate

Pass Rush Productivity

 

If anyone doesn't understand that then there is a problem.

KOT's post about Huff suggests that there is a developing hope for Huff to be an efficient pass rusher as he gets more experience. It doesn't guarantee that Huff will be as nearly good as Robert Quinn or someone in his peer.

Because Jets' recent history, it is easy to dismiss PRWR for rookie campaign. However, you forget how happy you are with JD's players' progression.  You want to prove that you are truly with JD then you should forget Jets' recent history. 

 

Surely, UDFA player is way ahead of first round player in PRWR category but it doesn't erase the fact that first round WR burned UDFA CB. LOL.

My point has remained the same the whole time. That the stat is misleading. Huff has had like 330 snaps and has 1 sack. So whoever does this win rate is surely catering it in some way. It’s not like the kid is getting double teamed and beats his OLineman or TE and then has to deal with another guy, so he “won” the snap.

 

With a roughly 15% win rate, at roughly 330 snaps, that equals to roughly 50 wins. So somethings wrong here. Bc if he has won 50 times this year for it to only equal 1 sack is pretty awful. That means that 2% of the time he “wins” he makes a big play. Which is pretty darn bad.

 

There’s potential in him. No doubt. But these dumb stats posted are just exactly that. Dumb. Makes you think he’s a top rookie edge rusher. When he’s not.

[KingOfNewYork]