2020 Jets Season: Misc. Talk

[Dr.O]

Taking a QB is a risk in of its self, if we keep the mind set that we’ll wait for the next Trevor we’ll end up waiting for the next 10-20 years for that guy. Get the HC, draft Wilson or Fields, fix the OL and get weapons.

[GangGreen420]

1 hour ago, Dr.O said:

Taking a QB is a risk in of its self, if we keep the mind set that we’ll wait for the next Trevor we’ll end up waiting for the next 10-20 years for that guy. Get the HC, draft Wilson or Fields, fix the OL and get weapons.

It’s all on Joe Douglas. If he thinks Fields/Wilson is his guy then take him at 2. But I get a feeling he won’t reach unless he LOVES one of them 

[rickyt31]

3 hours ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

You cannot build this team as if Lawrence is our QB, but is not. That makes no sense. Lawrence is gone. We have to accept it, move on and change our course of action...radically so.

Draft Sewell, hire the right head coach (someone who actually wants the job), get a veteran QB to run the power offensive game and draft a developmental QB at some point early in the draft (just not pick No. 2). 

The worst thing we could do is draft a guy at No. 2 and just keep trying to build as if he were Trevor Lawrence. Or worse still, keep Darnold and think he can do what Lawrence does. 

 

I'm sorry, how would you have built this offense if we did draft Lawrence vs the other QBs? Wouldn't you still add the best players around as possible? I'm not getting you here. 

[bspice]

If/when we draft a qb at 1 or 2 we cannot put him in the same situation as Darnold with no weapons bad oline and bad coaches. If we’re at 2 don’t overthink it and draft Wilson or Fields and build around him through the draft and FA and hire the right coach this time. I don’t know what they were thinking when they hired Gase

[KingOfNewYork]

1 hour ago, bspice said:

If/when we draft a qb at 1 or 2 we cannot put him in the same situation as Darnold with no weapons bad oline and bad coaches. If we’re at 2 don’t overthink it and draft Wilson or Fields and build around him through the draft and FA and hire the right coach this time. I don’t know what they were thinking when they hired Gase

Unfortunately and I will beat this horse forever, we don’t know how good or bad the surrounding parts are simply because of how bad Darnold has been. 

What’s more likely, everything around him being terrible or him being terrible?

[bspice]

14 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Unfortunately and I will beat this horse forever, we don’t know how good or bad the surrounding parts are simply because of how bad Darnold has been. 

What’s more likely, everything around him being terrible or him being terrible?

I think it’s a combination of both. But besides that I think the main problem has been coaching. Darnold flashed some in year 1 under Bowles but regressed a ton since Gase came on. I truly believe Gase has ruined Sam, but I think he can be salvaged under the right coach. I just don’t want it to be here with the Jets anymore because I think the organization needs a clean slate with a new qb and coach. Plus bringing Sam back is going to be a bit of a difficult sell to the fans because at the end of the day we need something to get excited about and unfortunately that’s not Sam

[KingOfNewYork]

1 hour ago, bspice said:

I think it’s a combination of both. But besides that I think the main problem has been coaching. Darnold flashed some in year 1 under Bowles but regressed a ton since Gase came on. I truly believe Gase has ruined Sam, but I think he can be salvaged under the right coach. I just don’t want it to be here with the Jets anymore because I think the organization needs a clean slate with a new qb and coach. Plus bringing Sam back is going to be a bit of a difficult sell to the fans because at the end of the day we need something to get excited about and unfortunately that’s not Sam

Darnold had 3 good games with Bowles, like 5 with Gase. He sucks. 

[Bobby816]

10 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Unfortunately and I will beat this horse forever, we don’t know how good or bad the surrounding parts are simply because of how bad Darnold has been. 

What’s more likely, everything around him being terrible or him being terrible?

C... all the above.

[Jag68Sid87]

On 12/24/2020 at 2:23 PM, .Buzz said:

Out of curiosity, what's the thought process from people in here that they think shouldn't take a QB because Lawrence isn't there?

Like, you all realize that TLaw is generational, right? Next year, two years/three years etc. doesn't guarantee that a guy like that will come again or you'll even be in a position like this for a QB again, right? Like say last year's class was this year. Burrow went 1, would you guys have passed on Tua and Herbert and ridden it out with Darnold? 

Fields and Wilson aren't sure things, but there never is one. Both have franchise QB upside (even if you dislike them, you can't say they don't with a straight face unless you were in that camp with guys like Herbert, Josh Allen, Baker, etc. too), they both would be there without having to worry about surrendering picks to move up. You can easily sit them behind Darnold if for some reason that's the route you wanted to go (sit them for now). You have a boat load of $ to spend in FA along with the whole draft class to build up the offensive talent around them.

I just don't get it. Maybe it's because Lawrence is skewing thoughts on normal QB prospects at the time but man...the Jaguars had Bortles (not that I'm saying Darnold is that lost/gone or bad) in 2017 and decided to build it up around him and ended up passing on Watson, Mahomes, etc. and did it again with Lamar. Not sure if we had the coaching staff as far as offensive minds go to develop Mahomes and Lamar in 2018, but you guys also are bringing in a new HC that likely will have a decent shot to build around said QB.

If you have a franchise QB grade on a prospect(s) and you don't have a franchise QB yourself, your making a collosal mistake passing. Point blank.

 

On 12/24/2020 at 6:07 PM, rickyt31 said:

I'm sorry, how would you have built this offense if we did draft Lawrence vs the other QBs? Wouldn't you still add the best players around as possible? I'm not getting you here. 

Picking a quarterback at No. 2 is the same mistake we have always made. There is no surefire QB after Lawrence, so why not take the best player available in Sewell? It is that "we must get a QB or else we are screwed" mentality that led to the trade up to get Sanchez (although we did not surrender a ton in that deal, we still picked the wrong guy) and it is that mentality that led to the trade up from 4 to 3 to draft Darnold (who once again was the wrong guy). I am tired of this happening over and over and over again. Those who do not learn from history, repeat it.

Draft the OT if he is the best player available. We should have done that in the Darnold draft and taken Quenton Nelson but we decided we had to have a quarterback. Well, here we are three years later and we have to have a quarterback again. This cycle has to stop. 

We have two first rounders this year and two next year, and we have two second rounders as well. Take a QB with one of those selections. Heck, take one this year and take one next year. Just don't anoint the No. 2 overall pick as our next "franchise QB" because we are not in a good position for that player to succeed. Lawrence is different, and not just because of talent either. His selection allows the club to have a shot at the very best head coach available this year. Picking second does not. His selection allows the club to land better free agents. The second pick does not. 

There will be veteran QBs available who can be the placeholder for the developmental QB you draft either this year or next, if not both. Meanwhile, our new starting QB in 2021 will have the knowledge that his blind side will be protected and the right side as well. And with both Becton and Sewell, we can establish a power running game that can kill clock, keep the time of possession in our favor, lead to play-action passing and generally benefit the defense and the entire football team. 

But if we are going to pick yet another question mark at QB at No. 2, we might as well keep Darnold. At least he has three years on the other guy, so he should know defenses better than the Fields, Wilson's et al. 

This entire season, hell the entire Adam Gase era, will have been a complete waste of time with the No. 2 pick. We will have gotten precious little out of it. So it goes for Gang Green, I suppose.

[Bobby816]

11 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

 

Picking a quarterback at No. 2 is the same mistake we have always made. There is no surefire QB after Lawrence, so why not take the best player available in Sewell? It is that "we must get a QB or else we are screwed" mentality that led to the trade up to get Sanchez (although we did not surrender a ton in that deal, we still picked the wrong guy) and it is that mentality that led to the trade up from 4 to 3 to draft Darnold (who once again was the wrong guy). I am tired of this happening over and over and over again. Those who do not learn from history, repeat it.

Draft the OT if he is the best player available. We should have done that in the Darnold draft and taken Quenton Nelson but we decided we had to have a quarterback. Well, here we are three years later and we have to have a quarterback again. This cycle has to stop. 

We have two first rounders this year and two next year, and we have two second rounders as well. Take a QB with one of those selections. Heck, take one this year and take one next year. Just don't anoint the No. 2 overall pick as our next "franchise QB" because we are not in a good position for that player to succeed. Lawrence is different, and not just because of talent either. His selection allows the club to have a shot at the very best head coach available this year. Picking second does not. His selection allows the club to land better free agents. The second pick does not. 

There will be veteran QBs available who can be the placeholder for the developmental QB you draft either this year or next, if not both. Meanwhile, our new starting QB in 2021 will have the knowledge that his blind side will be protected and the right side as well. And with both Becton and Sewell, we can establish a power running game that can kill clock, keep the time of possession in our favor, lead to play-action passing and generally benefit the defense and the entire football team. 

But if we are going to pick yet another question mark at QB at No. 2, we might as well keep Darnold. At least he has three years on the other guy, so he should know defenses better than the Fields, Wilson's et al. 

This entire season, hell the entire Adam Gase era, will have been a complete waste of time with the No. 2 pick. We will have gotten precious little out of it. So it goes for Gang Green, I suppose.

Couple reasons why your point imo is flawed.

1st: any player you draft is a risk. Sewell is a risk the same way Fields is a risk. One just plays a more important position.

2nd: you’re confident in Darnold after this season he’s had to be our QB? You picking up his 5th year option after his poor season? He’s played awful and that’s a fact. I doubt we pick up his 5th year option Bc of that.

3rd: so in 2022 we need a new QB. You think we will be drafting really high to get one? I doubt it. So you want to trade away a bunch of draft picks to set the franchise back to get one. Who will be just as much of a risk as a guy like Fields? No thank You

[Jag68Sid87]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

Couple reasons why your point imo is flawed.

1st: any player you draft is a risk. Sewell is a risk the same way Fields is a risk. One just plays a more important position.

2nd: you’re confident in Darnold after this season he’s had to be our QB? You picking up his 5th year option after his poor season? He’s played awful and that’s a fact. I doubt we pick up his 5th year option Bc of that.

3rd: so in 2022 we need a new QB. You think we will be drafting really high to get one? I doubt it. So you want to trade away a bunch of draft picks to set the franchise back to get one. Who will be just as much of a risk as a guy like Fields? No thank You

I am saying we suck at drafting quarterbacks. Always have. Take the OT if the OT is the best player available. I am NOT suggesting we keep Darnold or that we pick up that fifth-year option. I am saying that picking a QB at No. 2 is the same mistake as drafting Darnold in 2018, or keeping him beyond this year. We need to start learning from our mistakes instead of repeating them over and over. I am also not suggesting trading away draft picks.

If you and others want Justin Fields to be our Week 1 starter next year, that is a huge thumbs down for me. The Tua's and Herbert's of this year both started the season on the bench. So, if you are suggesting we draft a QB at No. 2 and then sit him, that I can get behind. Either way, we still need a veteran quarterback so my suggestion (Sewell plus a QB at the Seattle pick) is similar to yours (Fields, then OG with the Seattle pick). But if you are saying Fields should start in Week 1, that is where I get off the train.

Last point, if we drafted Lawrence, we would hire a coach, hire an OC and create an offense designed for him (Lawrence). Without him, hire the right coach and make the personnel decisions based on how he (the new HC) wants to run the offense. No other quarterback in this year's draft should be given the Lawrence treatment, simply because they are not Trevor Lawrence. That is the main difference. That is what cost us by winning that stupid game in LA last weekend.

And no, I am not completely over it.

[Dr.O]

6 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

I am saying we suck at drafting quarterbacks. Always have. Take the OT if the OT is the best player available. I am NOT suggesting we keep Darnold or that we pick up that fifth-year option. I am saying that picking a QB at No. 2 is the same mistake as drafting Darnold in 2018, or keeping him beyond this year. We need to start learning from our mistakes instead of repeating them over and over. I am also not suggesting trading away draft picks.

If you and others want Justin Fields to be our Week 1 starter next year, that is a huge thumbs down for me. The Tua's and Herbert's of this year both started the season on the bench. So, if you are suggesting we draft a QB at No. 2 and then sit him, that I can get behind. Either way, we still need a veteran quarterback so my suggestion (Sewell plus a QB at the Seattle pick) is similar to yours (Fields, then OG with the Seattle pick). But if you are saying Fields should start in Week 1, that is where I get off the train.

Last point, if we drafted Lawrence, we would hire a coach, hire an OC and create an offense designed for him (Lawrence). Without him, hire the right coach and make the personnel decisions based on how he (the new HC) wants to run the offense. No other quarterback in this year's draft should be given the Lawrence treatment, simply because they are not Trevor Lawrence. That is the main difference. That is what cost us by winning that stupid game in LA last weekend.

And no, I am not completely over it.

With that logic we should be forfeiting our 2 JD round pick every year because we suck at drafting in the 2nd, or we should just draft OT’s or Centers because those are the only positions we historically hit on?

[Jag68Sid87]

2 minutes ago, Dr.O said:

With that logic we should be forfeiting our 2 JD round pick every year because we suck at drafting in the 2nd, or we should just draft OT’s or Centers because those are the only positions we historically hit on?

So you are comfortable that our scouts, our GM, everybody involved will land the right quarterback at No. 2 in a year where college QBs missed a ton of practice time, missed important games, had bowl games cancelled, etc. etc. etc.? We are going to rely on the scouting combine to make this all-important decision? 

I am sorry, but as far as the QB of the future is concerned, pay it forward. This is not the time to roll the dice and set the franchise back several more seasons. 

Carolina is in a rebuild, yet they decided to go with a veteran, an XFL star and a (failed) 3rd rounder from 2019 as their qb room this year. I am not saying we have to model that entirely, but what I am saying is there are other options. 

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

So you are comfortable that our scouts, our GM, everybody involved will land the right quarterback at No. 2 in a year where college QBs missed a ton of practice time, missed important games, had bowl games cancelled, etc. etc. etc.? We are going to rely on the scouting combine to make this all-important decision? 

I am sorry, but as far as the QB of the future is concerned, pay it forward. This is not the time to roll the dice and set the franchise back several more seasons. 

Carolina is in a rebuild, yet they decided to go with a veteran, an XFL star and a (failed) 3rd rounder from 2019 as their qb room this year. I am not saying we have to model that entirely, but what I am saying is there are other options. 

I think we shouldn’t judge JD as a GM based on previous GMs we’ve had here. Becton and Mims looked good this season. He doesn’t get credit for that from you?

Where you are correct us that our new HC and OC will have to have a better system than the one in place now. But a system should fit whoever is at QB. Just the more talented the QB is the better the system operates. 

[rickyt31]

42 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

 

Picking a quarterback at No. 2 is the same mistake we have always made. There is no surefire QB after Lawrence, so why not take the best player available in Sewell? It is that "we must get a QB or else we are screwed" mentality that led to the trade up to get Sanchez (although we did not surrender a ton in that deal, we still picked the wrong guy) and it is that mentality that led to the trade up from 4 to 3 to draft Darnold (who once again was the wrong guy). I am tired of this happening over and over and over again. Those who do not learn from history, repeat it.

Draft the OT if he is the best player available. We should have done that in the Darnold draft and taken Quenton Nelson but we decided we had to have a quarterback. Well, here we are three years later and we have to have a quarterback again. This cycle has to stop. 

We have two first rounders this year and two next year, and we have two second rounders as well. Take a QB with one of those selections. Heck, take one this year and take one next year. Just don't anoint the No. 2 overall pick as our next "franchise QB" because we are not in a good position for that player to succeed. Lawrence is different, and not just because of talent either. His selection allows the club to have a shot at the very best head coach available this year. Picking second does not. His selection allows the club to land better free agents. The second pick does not. 

There will be veteran QBs available who can be the placeholder for the developmental QB you draft either this year or next, if not both. Meanwhile, our new starting QB in 2021 will have the knowledge that his blind side will be protected and the right side as well. And with both Becton and Sewell, we can establish a power running game that can kill clock, keep the time of possession in our favor, lead to play-action passing and generally benefit the defense and the entire football team. 

But if we are going to pick yet another question mark at QB at No. 2, we might as well keep Darnold. At least he has three years on the other guy, so he should know defenses better than the Fields, Wilson's et al. 

This entire season, hell the entire Adam Gase era, will have been a complete waste of time with the No. 2 pick. We will have gotten precious little out of it. So it goes for Gang Green, I suppose.

Everyone pretty much responded to you the way I was going to, so I'll say this. 

1. All of the top QBs in the draft aren't number 1 picks. 

2. You're blaming failures from the past on JD. 

3. There are 4 other QBs who graded higher, than Lawrence.  So no one is forcing a QB at #2, people like what they see on tape.  

4. You're assuming next year's class will be better and we'll be in position to draft the best option. If not, we're screwed, again.  

5. Drafting a QB in the first won't stop us from building a great rushing attack because the amount of depth in free agency & draft class has in those positions.  

6. It literally doesn't matter who draft/Sign at QB, we still build the offense the same way we would have if we drafted Lawrence.  Build the best Oline, WR core, and RB you can like you work have if you drafted him. 

7. I'm open minded to Drafting a different position, but I like this QB class and see potential great fits. 

8. Because of Lawrence fans, I'm actually rooting against him now. Lol