mrpazzo Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 He may be an exception to the rule but Rich Gannon became a pro bowler late in his career. It's pretty clear in the case of quarterbacks, but players need smart coaching to get the best out of what they do well and minimize what they don't. We are seeing this with Baker, but it goes on all the time. I am sure there are many players who cycle out of the league or don't reach their true potential, because mediocre to poor coaches try to put square pegs into round holes. Also with Wyatt, did he also make this jump because this new offensive system fits his physical skill set. We know he is now getting the best coaching in the NFL with Callahan. We can well imagine that with many of our past coaches he may have improved but not looked great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, mrpazzo said: He may be an exception to the rule but Rich Gannon became a pro bowler late in his career. It's pretty clear in the case of quarterbacks, but players need smart coaching to get the best out of what they do well and minimize what they don't. We are seeing this with Baker, but it goes on all the time. I am sure there are many players who cycle out of the league or don't reach their true potential, because mediocre to poor coaches try to put square pegs into round holes. Also with Wyatt, did he also make this jump because this new offensive system fits his physical skill set. We know he is now getting the best coaching in the NFL with Callahan. We can well imagine that with many of our past coaches he may have improved but not looked great. You're not wrong the coaching did Baker no favors last year. He also had the least pocket time in the NFL and was the 4th most hurried passer. Due to self preservation (rolling out to his right that we saw all year) he was top 10 in least amount of hits taken. With bad offensive line play it is harder to coach and I think that's the 1st reason Freddie failed. The most important reason he failed though was because he didn't adjust, kept throwing those same play calls out there and took forever to get the call in so everything was rushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggieCamp Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 1 hour ago, candyman93 said: This won’t be a popular opinion. However, I think in the NFL, you can tell if a guy is going to be a great player after his rookie year and maybe 2nd year at the latest. How many guys turn into superstars after year 3? Wyatt Teller is the only guy I can think of. Now I think you can definitely still be a contributor and solid starter after year 3. I’m talking about the future pro bowl / all pro types. We KNEW what Myles Garrett was going to be after his rookie year and especially his 2nd year. It’s the same deal with Nick Chubb. OBJ was a monster day 1. I still think Denzel can be a superstar if he gets physically stronger. Baker can certainly be as well. I think there might be more exceptions than you think. Some of these go back a ways but here goes: Steve Young, Kurt Warner, Rich Gannon, Adam Thielen, James Harrison, Tom Brady, Antonio Gates, Jimmy Smith (Jags), Jason Peters, Mike Vrabel, Shannon Sharpe, Steve Smith (Panthers), Fred Jackson (Bills), Brett Favre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said: I think there might be more exceptions than you think. Some of these go back a ways but here goes: Steve Young, Kurt Warner, Rich Gannon, Adam Thielen, James Harrison, Tom Brady, Antonio Gates, Jimmy Smith (Jags), Jason Peters, Mike Vrabel, Shannon Sharpe, Steve Smith (Panthers), Fred Jackson (Bills), Brett Favre. A lot of QBs, which is understandable given the unique nature of that position. However, think about how many players come into the nfl every season. You’re talking all of college football at every level and international guys. Those guys you mentioned make it what? A .1% chance of happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 I think the point I’m trying to get at still stands. It’s rare for guys to develop into a superstar, just overall. You’re talking being the best of the best football players in the world. Guys developing after 2 years if they showed nothing? Even rarer. Now, if anything, it means fans need to realize that building from the draft doesn’t mean getting franchise changers. You need to just get solid contributors. New England is the standard, but they don’t draft pro bowl studs every year. They haven’t done that since Gronk. However, they draft guys who fit what they want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, candyman93 said: A lot of QBs, which is understandable given the unique nature of that position. However, think about how many players come into the nfl every season. You’re talking all of college football at every level and international guys. Those guys you mentioned make it what? A .1% chance of happening? Well you're asking how many players start to excel after year 3 when an average NFL career is 3 years. It's like asking what MLB players become good after being in the majors for 6 years or the NBA after 4 or 5 years. Not many turn to superstars in those time frames. QB is a little different because so much of it is out of your control. As a pitcher, hitter, fielder, basketball player not a whole lot changes. As any position other than QB your athleticism will show if you can beat your man or cover your zone on a regular basis. A QB has to rely on so much just to be in a position to excel at his job. You can usually tell in a year or two if there is no hope or very little hope. There is a lot more to the position than ability though, even though that is the first requisite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 1 minute ago, candyman93 said: I think the point I’m trying to get at still stands. It’s rare for guys to develop into a superstar, just overall. You’re talking being the best of the best football players in the world. Guys developing after 2 years if they showed nothing? Even rarer. Now, if anything, it means fans need to realize that building from the draft doesn’t mean getting franchise changers. You need to just get solid contributors. New England is the standard, but they don’t draft pro bowl studs every year. They haven’t done that since Gronk. However, they draft guys who fit what they want to do. Yeah you are either an NFL athlete or not. Sure sometimes it takes awhile to display your skills or get on the NFL level (steroids) but most times it's pretty easy to tell right away if you are a better athlete than most NFL players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 Hopefully Newton doesn’t suck today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 Patriots have zero talent on either side of the ball outside of their secondary. They’ve won purely because of Belichick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 Belichick is being Belichick Tua’s head is spinning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Baltimore Colts Miami and tenn are going to win. Worst case scenario for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 Cam Newton needs to retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said: Baltimore Colts Miami and tenn are going to win. Worst case scenario for us. I’ve never seen a conference as tight and competitive as the AFC this year. We might have to go 12-4 just to make the freaking playoffs. Edited December 20, 2020 by candyman93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said: Baltimore Colts Miami and tenn are going to win. Worst case scenario for us. As long as we win it's status quo so not a big deal. Maybe the Raiders/Steelers(?)/Giants/GB can help us next week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns1987 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 We need to win out to make it. There are not too many games left where we could get some help. If we finish 11-5 and miss the playoffs, in a year where seven teams make it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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