College Football and Draft Discussion 2024

[MSURacerDT55]

19 hours ago, Pruitt3443 said:

JOK is really a safety that was asked to play LB at Notre Dame.  He is also not as good as Isaiah Simmons was coming out and Simmons was mediocre at best his rookie season.  With a learning curve, he might work in Woods scheme, for as long as the Browns decide to stick with that. I think if you are going to play him as a true LB he ranks behind both Parsons and Collins at the position.

As a safety JOK might be the best in this draft class, which is relatively weak and may not see a first rounder outside of JOK. As much as LB seems to be undervalued these days, not sure a first round safety is the way to go.  

That being said I am not sure JOK will be there when the Browns pick, but this year more than most the draft will be a crap shoot as to how teams are viewing these players, especially the ones who sat out this past year. Some guys could fall unexpectedly.  I am kind of hoping one of the CBs fall to us as I have no hope that Greedy plays again, or if he does for any extended period of time.

- Such a well thought out take, people are so infatuated with the latest shiny toy and don't even think about how he would realistically fit with us. Plus people want to compare him to Isaiah Simmons, I almost fell out of my chair, Simmons is 6'4 and basically 240, ran 4.39 with 39 inch vertical and 11 inch broad jump. People are trying to hype him up to be like Simmons but he isn't, just like this time next draft, there will be some guy who may fit the description and will be the recipient of similar hype.

- As I continue to say, we already have a guy that fits the same description of JOK, his name is Ronnie Harrison 

- I also agree with your take about one of the corners dropping, I personally am a  pass rush first guy, but if a premium corner drops, I hope the Browns would be smart enough to take him.

[LinebackerGod]

5 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

- Such a well thought out take, people are so infatuated with the latest shiny toy and don't even think about how he would realistically fit with us. Plus people want to compare him to Isaiah Simmons, I almost fell out of my chair, Simmons is 6'4 and basically 240, ran 4.39 with 39 inch vertical and 11 inch broad jump. People are trying to hype him up to be like Simmons but he isn't, just like this time next draft, there will be some guy who may fit the description and will be the recipient of similar hype.

I think he's a better overall football player than Simmons was. Just not as good of an athlete.

5 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

- As I continue to say, we already have a guy that fits the same description of JOK, his name is Ronnie Harrison

I think JOK is better than Harrison, but I don't think Harrison would be bad in that role. I'd rather draft a S and move Harrison to STAR as well, but I do think JOK gives you more as a true LBer.

5 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

- I also agree with your take about one of the corners dropping, I personally am a  pass rush first guy, but if a premium corner drops, I hope the Browns would be smart enough to take him.

There are really only two corners that I think are great prospects. I don't think Surtain or Farley drops and those are the only two guys I would consider to be slam-dunk talents. Jaycee Horn is a solid pick at #26, but I wouldn't call that a steal. I like Greg Newsome more, actually. That dude is really good. Not sure how athletic he is, but the guy can play the game.

[MSURacerDT55]

6 minutes ago, LinebackerGod said:

I think he's a better overall football player than Simmons was. Just not as good of an athlete.

Explain what he does better than Simmons 

 

8 minutes ago, LinebackerGod said:

I think JOK is better than Harrison, but I don't think Harrison would be bad in that role. I'd rather draft a S and move Harrison to STAR as well, but I do think JOK gives you more as a true LBer.

Ill pass on all of that, Harrison is going into year 2 of the defense, that is valuable in itself. I'd take a safety and move him around rather than take a gamble on a guy who may or may not be able to do what people project him to be able to do.

 

 

[Reginaldm9]

38 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

 

- I also agree with your take about one of the corners dropping, I personally am a  pass rush first guy, but if a premium corner drops, I hope the Browns would be smart enough to take him.

These are definitely the hottest needs. There's a chance we sort out those positions via FA, but Daviyon Nixon (interior rush) and Zaven Collins (pass rush sometimes) are still the top two on my attainable board. 

[MSURacerDT55]

8 minutes ago, Reginaldm9 said:

These are definitely the hottest needs. There's a chance we sort out those positions via FA, but Daviyon Nixon (interior rush) and Zaven Collins (pass rush sometimes) are still the top two on my attainable board. 

I think its all about how our FO grade these guys and if they fit what we are trying to do

Edited March 3, 2021 by MSURacerDT55

[LinebackerGod]

11 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Explain what he does better than Simmons 

Gladly.

1. Reading guards when playing inside the box. JOK is fantastic at feeling flow and scraping to the football. Simmons was often late on his reads when asked to play inside the box. It was mainly any time a guard pulled for Simmons. He could read runs straight at him (iso, zone), but he was terrible when it came to traps, counters, power concepts. JOK doesn't play inside the box that often, but when he was asked to do this, he didn't miss any pullers or flow motion. I wonder if Simmons was taught to read the runningback in that Clemson defense, because his eyes were all over the place.

2. Coverage, especially in zone. Simmons naturally gets "peeky" in his pass drops and as a result, lost WR's in coverage. Simmons has the ability to match up with just about everyone physically. Like...anyone. But his instincts in coverage were terrible coming out of Clemson and he'd routinely lose WR's while staring at the QB. He didn't do a good job of keeping his head on a swivel and looking for work. JOK is elite in this area.

3. Playing with pace. Not overrunning plays or sprinting into the "wash." JOK avoids blocks, but doesn't do it by sacrificing his gap or leverage on the ball carrier. Simmons was more of a berzerker and flew into the backfield when he should have slowed down. He didn't seem to understand when to trigger and when to slow play.

4. Blitz timing. JOK didn't blitz much, but when he did, it was always well-timed and disguised. Simmons ran himself into blocks quite a bit. His big frame and athletic traits made him somewhat successful regardless, but there was very little nuance to his game. JOK is just so savvy for the OLB position, a spot I have been coaching for 12 years now. It doesn't mean I'm the go-to expert on what will make a good pro, but it is something I religiously study.

 

 

I just think Simmons, while having an absurd upside, was not good at the little things that make linebackers elite. I think JOK does things with more control and consistency. He's also a technician that understands how to read and react to every situation. JOK plays the game like a savvy vet. Simmons was playing like a freak athlete in college.

 

 

I'm not sure who I would pick first if they were both in the draft. On one hand, I think JOK is better. On the other hand, the freak factor with Simmons is real. Simmons has a much higher ceiling physically, but JOK's ceiling is very good too. Simmons just has all-time traits physically, whereas JOK has very good traits. That's the only thing I think JOK loses out to Simmons in.

[MSURacerDT55]

6 minutes ago, LinebackerGod said:

Gladly.

1. Reading guards when playing inside the box. JOK is fantastic at feeling flow and scraping to the football. Simmons was often late on his reads when asked to play inside the box. It was mainly any time a guard pulled for Simmons. He could read runs straight at him (iso, zone), but he was terrible when it came to traps, counters, power concepts. JOK doesn't play inside the box that often, but when he was asked to do this, he didn't miss any pullers or flow motion. I wonder if Simmons was taught to read the runningback in that Clemson defense, because his eyes were all over the place.

2. Coverage, especially in zone. Simmons naturally gets "peeky" in his pass drops and as a result, lost WR's in coverage. Simmons has the ability to match up with just about everyone physically. Like...anyone. But his instincts in coverage were terrible coming out of Clemson and he'd routinely lose WR's while staring at the QB. He didn't do a good job of keeping his head on a swivel and looking for work. JOK is elite in this area.

3. Playing with pace. Not overrunning plays or sprinting into the "wash." JOK avoids blocks, but doesn't do it by sacrificing his gap or leverage on the ball carrier. Simmons was more of a berzerker and flew into the backfield when he should have slowed down. He didn't seem to understand when to trigger and when to slow play.

4. Blitz timing. JOK didn't blitz much, but when he did, it was always well-timed and disguised. Simmons ran himself into blocks quite a bit. His big frame and athletic traits made him somewhat successful regardless, but there was very little nuance to his game. JOK is just so savvy for the OLB position, a spot I have been coaching for 12 years now. It doesn't mean I'm the go-to expert on what will make a good pro, but it is something I religiously study.

 

 

I just think Simmons, while having an absurd upside, was not good at the little things that make linebackers elite. I think JOK does things with more control and consistency. He's also a technician that understands how to read and react to every situation. JOK plays the game like a savvy vet. Simmons was playing like a freak athlete in college.

 

 

I'm not sure who I would pick first if they were both in the draft. On one hand, I think JOK is better. On the other hand, the freak factor with Simmons is real. Simmons has a much higher ceiling physically, but JOK's ceiling is very good too. Simmons just has all-time traits physically, whereas JOK has very good traits. That's the only thing I think JOK loses out to Simmons in.

You should take your thoughts on this over to the Draft forum and see what others say, create a poll

Edited March 3, 2021 by MSURacerDT55

[LinebackerGod]

25 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

You should take your thoughts on this over to the Draft forum and see what others say, create a poll

Ok. I mean, I don’t really care what other people are seeing if my eyes are seeing something else. But I’d be happy to debate. 

[MSURacerDT55]

Confession:

Brett Kollmann talked me off the ledge about JOK. I see his value...

[brownie man]

I’m finally watching guys

Gregory Roseau has some Aldon Smith to his game. Long athletic but needs filing out. Pro day will be big for him. I could see Andrew liking his ceiling a lot. 

Jaelan Phillips would be best at linebacker he spends the majority of the time standing up I’m not sure if he has that set the edge presence you’d need opposite Myles. 
 

Azeez Ojulari is just a terror good Lord. He’s got that James Harrison to him. He’s so active. If we can get a solid starting end In FA I’d like him as a front 7 chess piece weapon. 
 

Kwity Paye has some special athletic movements and good motor. Good closing speed. Quick movements and quick hands. I think he would be a good 3 cone. Fights to get off blocks. Doesn’t give up. I like him. Looks like a solid fit as a 43 end. Not quite the upside has Roseau but a cleaner projection. 
 

Jayson Oweh

Not very impressed. Looks like a starter but not much more than a 5-8 sack a year guy tops. Best case Trey Flowers from Detroit. 
 

Joe Tryon 

Jumped off the screen. Violent and covers ground quick. I like him a lot. A number of different moves you can tell he just tries to get to the QB however he can at that moment. Good movement. I think he’s my favorite possibly so far at least for our scheme. 
 

Carlos Basham

Instantly reminds me of L. J. Collier. Strong side set the edge end but doesn’t have the special pass rush athleticism. Big and Strong. Well coached but I don’t see all pro talent. 
 

Nick Bolton- first thought “Downhill”

that’s what we don’t have. He’s going after that ball. And he’s going to give you the pads.  I like him. He’s what we’re missing in the middle. He’s going to make a team happy. I’d love to get him in the second round because the first does have some great d line talent. He’s going to be a great linebacker. 
 

Joseph Assai- 34 OLB reminds me of Uchenna Nwosu on the Chargers. I’m moving on I don’t see his fit in the 43 for us where he’s going to go.  
 

Jamin Davis- Kwon Alexander first name that came to me. I feel like the hope is Mack or Jacob brings this fit for us.  
 

Zaven Collins- He is the one guy I watched previously. Fred Warner was the first name I thought of.  Big and rangy  I think he could be a great fit with what we have so far. 
 

Owusu- what a tackler. I just don’t know where you play him full time. He’s scheme dependent. To me he’d be the icing on the cake of a defense who already has the pieces in place. We have some more foundational needs before I’d take him. I just don’t know where you put him when your not in a 4-2-5 personnel.
 

 

Trevon Moehrig- Reminds me of Delphit honestly but the FS version. He’s got the center field capability. I’d rather take him than Owusu. I can see us playing him at FS and moving Delphit to that star role than putting Delphit at FS and putting Owusu in that star role. I feel like Delphit needs to be closer to the box. That’s where he’s special.  

 

Jaycee Horn- looks like a future all pro. Doesn’t have 4.3 speed but has everything else. Looks like that next great scrappy corner. Natural to the ball. He’s a pro right now he’ll be a stater as a rookie. Receivers are not going to like going against him. Reminds me of Tredavious White. 

 

Caleb Farley- his size is a problem. Smooth athlete. He’s got that Jimmy Smith frame. Yeah it’s hard to find corners that big that can move like that he’s going top 15. Yeah he’s the zone version of Jimmy Smith. Get him to a team like Seattle in that cover 3 he’s going to be a problem. 

Micah Parsons- He’d be my number 1 target. I’d trade our second rounder to move up for him. I think he’s the best defender in the draft. I see Cameron Wake. Could play SLB on run downs DE on passing downs but I’d still move him all around. He’s got enough talent if we drafted him I could honestly see him having more sacks than Myles possibly based off the attention Myles would bring and the possibilities that would free up for Micah. 
 

If I could have any player in the draft from what I’ve seen it’d be Micah. 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by brownie man

[buno67]

6 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Confession:

Brett Kollmann talked me off the ledge about JOK. I see his value...

Wanna share?

[brownie man]

Double post*

Edited March 4, 2021 by brownie man

[LinebackerGod]

13 hours ago, brownie man said:

Owusu- what a tackler. I just don’t know where you play him full time. He’s scheme dependent. To me he’d be the icing on the cake of a defense who already has the pieces in place. We have some more foundational needs before I’d take him. I just don’t know where you put him when your not in a 4-2-5 personnel.

Will linebacker.

He can and will be on the field every down. When there is a TE, he'll be on the TE side. When there is a 4 WR set, he'll move to WILL.

 

He's got a very defined role, which I think is nice, rather than this idea that defensive coordinators want to move guys all over the place. I feel like the more you move a guy, the more things can get twisted in their minds. Unless it's a pass rusher that can play over guards, I could care less about defensive versatility, to be honest.

[MSURacerDT55]

14 hours ago, buno67 said:

Wanna share?

Not sure about best in class but definitely see his value, I love his analysis  

Edited March 5, 2021 by MSURacerDT55

[MSURacerDT55]

14 hours ago, brownie man said:

Gregory Roseau has some Aldon Smith to his game. Long athletic but needs filing out. Pro day will be big for him. I could see Andrew liking his ceiling a lot. 

Instant game changer, him inside on passing downs will be a nightmare for teams. Also this kid has extremely fresh legs, only playing his Redshirt Freshman season and has so much growth in front of him. 

 

14 hours ago, brownie man said:

Azeez Ojulari is just a terror good Lord. He’s got that James Harrison to him. He’s so active. If we can get a solid starting end In FA I’d like him as a front 7 chess piece weapon.

🤮

 

14 hours ago, brownie man said:

Kwity Paye has some special athletic movements and good motor. Good closing speed. Quick movements and quick hands. I think he would be a good 3 cone. Fights to get off blocks. Doesn’t give up. I like him. Looks like a solid fit as a 43 end. Not quite the upside has Roseau but a cleaner projection. 
 

Reminds me of a slightly more explosive OV, not spectacular but ultra reliable 

 

14 hours ago, brownie man said:

Jayson Oweh

Not very impressed. Looks like a starter but not much more than a 5-8 sack a year guy tops.

As hard as I've been on him, I disagree with this. I think there is no in between with him, either he will explode on the scene and be a 12-14 sack guy or he will be a flaming disaster 

 

14 hours ago, brownie man said:

Joe Tryon 

Jumped off the screen. Violent and covers ground quick. I like him a lot. A number of different moves you can tell he just tries to get to the QB however he can at that moment. Good movement. I think he’s my favorite possibly so far at least for our scheme. 

I think we all should become familiar with this name, he probably has the best combination of size/athleticism/technique of all of edge prospects in this class. I love his game, I you can tell that he has a plan when he rushes the passer, and takes really great angles to the QB. Next to Rousseau, I would be the most excited getting him.

 

14 hours ago, brownie man said:

Carlos Basham

Instantly reminds me of L. J. Collier. Strong side set the edge end but doesn’t have the special pass rush athleticism. Big and Strong. Well coached but I don’t see all pro talent. 

Basham is an acquired taste, I like him, he isn't a finesse guy like a lot of the other guys, he is tough and physical. I think he has a great combination of power and explosiveness as well as having heavy hands. He may not be the super twitchy guy, but I think he could be a Pro Bowl, reliable, consistent guy.

 

15 hours ago, brownie man said:

Jaycee Horn- looks like a future all pro. Doesn’t have 4.3 speed but has everything else. Looks like that next great scrappy corner. Natural to the ball. He’s a pro right now he’ll be a stater as a rookie. Receivers are not going to like going against him. Reminds me of Tredavious White. 

Big want, if we were to draft him, he would get a lot of action, he has the temperament to welcome all of it, I love guys who fight back. His attitude is everything. Attitude and confidence is everything with DBs.