BayRaider Posted October 24, 2020 Author Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Drained said: This list never had Dak in the top 10 ever? Despite record breaking pace? Lol. And why is LJ no.9? He's been pretty ineffective this year so far. MVP award has always been more about team record and efficiently stats than bulk yardage stats. Cowboys were 1-3, plus, I’ll honestly never understand people hyping up bulk yardage like it’s more impressive than overall efficiency. Dak had a 9-4 TD Ratio and was on pace for 15 INTs for the year. These are the same type of people that argue Brees should of won MVP in 2011 because of his bulk stats, when his 2011 season doesn’t hold a candle to 2011 Aaron Rodgers, the correct and rightful MVP winner. Edited October 24, 2020 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 6 hours ago, Drained said: This list never had Dak in the top 10 ever? Despite record breaking pace? Lol. And why is LJ no.9? He's been pretty ineffective this year so far. A player that has great stats on a team that misses the playoffs with a losing record should be in contention for MVP - this is what you're suggesting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 7 hours ago, BayRaider said: MVP award has always been more about team record and efficiently stats than bulk yardage stats. Cowboys were 1-3, plus, I’ll honestly never understand people hyping up bulk yardage like it’s more impressive than overall efficiency. Dak had a 9-4 TD Ratio and was on pace for 15 INTs for the year. These are the same type of people that argue Brees should of won MVP in 2011 because of his bulk stats, when his 2011 season doesn’t hold a candle to 2011 Aaron Rodgers, the correct and rightful MVP winner. I disagree that it wasn’t a legit debate. Rodgers was better but Brees that year might’ve had the greatest season that didn’t win an MVP. He broke records and I I believe that was before some of the defensive rule changes as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, DirtyDez said: I disagree that it wasn’t a legit debate. Rodgers was better but Brees that year might’ve had the greatest season that didn’t win an MVP. He broke records and I I believe that was before some of the defensive rule changes as well. 2011 was the year everyone was passing for a crazy amount because of the lockout shortened offseason. That year, at the time, had like 3 or 4 of the top 10 all time passing seasons. It may have been before a pass friendly rule change or two, but it was still one of the most QB-friendly years in NFL history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilpimp972 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 16 hours ago, Drained said: This list never had Dak in the top 10 ever? Despite record breaking pace? Lol. And why is LJ no.9? He's been pretty ineffective this year so far. Yards are overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 13 hours ago, BayRaider said: MVP award has always been more about team record and efficiently stats than bulk yardage stats. Cowboys were 1-3, plus, I’ll honestly never understand people hyping up bulk yardage like it’s more impressive than overall efficiency. Dak had a 9-4 TD Ratio and was on pace for 15 INTs for the year. These are the same type of people that argue Brees should of won MVP in 2011 because of his bulk stats, when his 2011 season doesn’t hold a candle to 2011 Aaron Rodgers, the correct and rightful MVP winner. Why does this only apply to QB? LITERALLY any other position and no one has a problem with bulk/volume stats over efficiency stats. Bulk stats matter.... alot, for all positions. No one is penalizing a 2000 yds rusher at 4.4 ypc over a 1200 yd rusher at 6.1 ypc. Or a 20 sack season playing 200 more snaps than a 12 sack season Or 2000 yd rec yds with 140 recs vs 1000 yds with 50 recs. Bulk up or go home... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Drained said: This list never had Dak in the top 10 ever? Despite record breaking pace? Lol. And why is LJ no.9? He's been pretty ineffective this year so far. Passing yards is very likely the single worst stat to correlate to good play. 9 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said: Why does this only apply to QB? LITERALLY any other position and no one has a problem with bulk/volume stats over efficiency stats. Correct. A QB has to win games. Edited October 25, 2020 by wackywabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 15 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: Passing yards is very likely the single worst stat to correlate to good play. Correct. A QB has to win games. A qb has to throw the ball to help his team win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said: A qb has to throw the ball to help his team win. A QB has to throw a lot against prevent defenses in garbage time to try to catch up. Passing yards do not correlate with wins when looking within a QB's season. Edited October 25, 2020 by wackywabbit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 20 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: Passing yards is very likely the single worst stat to correlate to good play. Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said: Why does this only apply to QB? LITERALLY any other position and no one has a problem with bulk/volume stats over efficiency stats. Bulk stats matter.... alot, for all positions. No one is penalizing a 2000 yds rusher at 4.4 ypc over a 1200 yd rusher at 6.1 ypc. Or a 20 sack season playing 200 more snaps than a 12 sack season Or 2000 yd rec yds with 140 recs vs 1000 yds with 50 recs. Bulk up or go home... Look at the history of the MVP award. Efficiency stats for QB are alwaysssss way more valued than bulk stats, which is how it should be. Is 3500 yards 30 TDs 5 INTs gonna win you more games or 5000 yards 30 TDs 15 INTs? The first one is going to win WAY more games, and also WAY more effective. Although YPA would also come into play. Don’t forget garbage time that QBs get free passing yards and also prevent defenses. RBs aren’t getting garbage time yards, for the most part. Bulk rushing yards are definitely more impressive than bulk passing yards. Edited October 25, 2020 by BayRaider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 41 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: A QB has to throw a lot against prevent defenses in garbage time to try to catch up. Passing yards do not correlate with wins when looking within a QB's season. Do you have data that supports this? What the win loss record is of qbs who throw 300 plus yds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 37 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Look at the history of the MVP award. Efficiency stats for QB are alwaysssss way more valued than bulk stats, which is how it should be. Is 3500 yards 30 TDs 5 INTs gonna win you more games or 5000 yards 30 TDs 15 INTs? The first one is going to win WAY more games, and also WAY more effective. Although YPA would also come into play. Don’t forget garbage time that QBs get free passing yards and also prevent defenses. RBs aren’t getting garbage time yards, for the most part. Bulk rushing yards are definitely more impressive than bulk passing yards. Ok so, then context matters. Qb 1 had 5200 yds 40 tds 7 ints and team went 12-4 Qb 2 had 3800 yds 40 tds 5 ints and team went 12-4. Qb 1 played better, as he helped move his offense more than Qb 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bearerofnews said: Do you have data that supports this? What the win loss record is of qbs who throw 300 plus yds? It'd be a lot easier to tell you if PFR didn't put up a pay wall this year. W/L of 300 yard passing games? You count this up and tell me: https://www.footballdb.com/stats/300-yard-passing.html Is it 28-23-1? 53.8% wins? That's what I got on a quick count, but not going to bother to double check. It's clearly not a strong correlation coefficient. I would actually LOVE to compare that to games where a team threw under 200 yards (which I'd bet would be a better win %), but too cheap to tell you https://stathead.com/football/tgl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=game&order_by_asc=0&order_by=pass_yds&year_min=2020&year_max=2020&game_type=R&ccomp[1]=lt&cval[1]=200&cstat[1]=pass_yds&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&week_num_min=0&week_num_max=99&temperature_gtlt=lt Edit: @Bearerofnews, just to show you how seriously I take data to back up a point, I found another site to query stats (which doesn't have the current season). http://footballqueries.com/TeamGameSearch.aspx For 2019, teams that passed for >300 yards went 68-67-2. Teams that passed for <=200 yards went 67-66-0. So... yea, I certify the take that passing yards do not correlate with wins in the current NFL. You could report the number of prime jersey numbers on a team and find just as strong a correlation with wins. Edited October 25, 2020 by wackywabbit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 1 hour ago, wackywabbit said: It'd be a lot easier to tell you if PFR didn't put up a pay wall this year. W/L of 300 yard passing games? You count this up and tell me: https://www.footballdb.com/stats/300-yard-passing.html Is it 28-23-1? 53.8% wins? That's what I got on a quick count, but not going to bother to double check. It's clearly not a strong correlation coefficient. I would actually LOVE to compare that to games where a team threw under 200 yards (which I'd bet would be a better win %), but too cheap to tell you https://stathead.com/football/tgl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=game&order_by_asc=0&order_by=pass_yds&year_min=2020&year_max=2020&game_type=R&ccomp[1]=lt&cval[1]=200&cstat[1]=pass_yds&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&week_num_min=0&week_num_max=99&temperature_gtlt=lt Edit: @Bearerofnews, just to show you how seriously I take data to back up a point, I found another site to query stats (which doesn't have the current season). http://footballqueries.com/TeamGameSearch.aspx For 2019, teams that passed for >300 yards went 68-67-2. Teams that passed for <=200 yards went 67-66-0. So... yea, I certify the take that passing yards do not correlate with wins in the current NFL. You could report the number of prime jersey numbers on a team and find just as strong a correlation with wins. Fair enough. It also shows throwing 200 or less doesn't correlate to wins. I'll try out that site with the query search engine to see what the numbers look like with > 300 yds and 0 ints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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