MVP Watch FINAL RANKINGS (Version 17.0)

[jofos]

35 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Is Derrick Henry in this conversation?

A half where he posts 140 yards and 3 TDs on a pretty good defense is about as much as you can ask from a non-QB.

He probably should be but he isn't...

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

I'm patiently waiting for the "Has Russel Wilson been figured out?" thread. Unfortunately for him I think his play lately is costing him that elusive first time MVP vote 

[Daniel]

15 minutes ago, kingseanjohn said:

That pretty good defense was missing what may be their best player in Buckner.

That’s why I said pretty good. They were a top defense with Buckner, still had all their other guys.

[ET80]

16 minutes ago, jofos said:

I was joking

This is CEREAL BUSINESS!!!

17 minutes ago, jofos said:

I do think Watson is one of the top QBs in the game however. Just the BOB factor kills him this year.

Yeah, he's found a new gear - but we'll see what happens without Will Fuller.

[Apparition]

26 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Really? If so, Deshaun Watson should be in the chat too...

(FTR, Watson isn't in the discussion simply because the Texans aren't really good).

Watson should absolutely be in the discussion. He's probably a close 3rd among QBs right now, behind Mahomes and Rodgers. If the Texans end up with a respectable record (8-8 or 9-7) he'll get my vote simply because of where they'd be without him. 

[ET80]

Just now, Starless said:

Watson should absolutely be in the discussion. He's probably a close 3rd among QBs right now, behind Mahomes and Rodgers. If the Texans end up with a respectable record (8-8 or 9-7) he'll get my vote simply because of where they'd be without him. 

I like the tune you're playing, but I don't see 8-8 or 9-7.

If he DOES go 8-8 or 9-7 - with no Will Fuller - yes, I'll stand on the table for that. 

[Archimedes]

Watson is having a fabulous season, and definitively establishing himself as a top 4 qb, but he’s not going to get any serious MVP consideration. Rivers and Brees in 2008 would be your reference point for Watson (assuming they get to 8 wins) and neither of those guys generated serious MVP consideration. 

As an aside, it’s annoying me to no end to see people suggesting Dalvin Cook or Henry should be getting MVP consideration over Kamara. None of them should get it, but if you are going to throw a RB in there then Kamara has been statistically far more valuable than either guy, but especially Henry.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Archimedes

[BayRaider]

I'm sure Watson will be a prime MVP contender next year. I think there's only four elite QBs in the NFL which are Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, and Watson in any order you wanna put them in. The next tier is a gap. 5-12 in any order would be guys like Brady, Ryan, Allen, Tannehil, Jackson, Brees, Prescott, and Roethlisberger. If this thread was Top 10 best QB seasons, I'd honestly have Watson as #3 behind Mahomes and Rodgers. Watson is having a terrific year, and should by all means, finish Top 5 in OPOY.

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, Archimedes said:

Watson is having a fabulous season, and definitively establishing himself as a top 4 qb, but he’s not going to get any serious MVP consideration. Rivers and Brees in 2008 would be your reference point for Watson (assuming they get to 8 wins) and neither of those guys generated serious MVP consideration. 

As an aside, it’s annoying me to no end to see people suggesting Dalvin Cook or Henry should be getting MVP consideration over Kamara. None of them should get it, but if you are going to throw a RB in there then Kamara has been statistically far more valuable than either guy, but especially Henry.

I would disagree here. I think Henry's season has been more impressive than Kamara's. I also think Henry is more valuable to his team, slightly. Tannehil and Henry compliment each other extremely well, and that offense doesn't work without either guy. For the Saints, Kamara has hardly even been a factor without Brees, been all Sean Payton really, and Brees is the clear engine of the offense.

Also, Henry has closed out multiple games for the Titans as well. And I also think he's straight up having a better statistical year than Kamara as well.

[Drained]

57 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Really? If so, Deshaun Watson should be in the chat too...

(FTR, Watson isn't in the discussion simply because the Texans aren't really good).

MVP really solidifies the belief that the NFL and Media, despite saying W's and L's aren't a QB stat, that W's and L's are a QB stat.

Dak Prescott could be putting up record-shattering numbers right now (if he wasn't injured of course) and he wouldn't be on this list or any journalists top 10 because "well he threw two ints on hail mary's and the cowboys are 4-7, but oooh look at this qb who has threw 1000 less yards than him and is not playing on the same level cus he has more wins"

[ET80]

3 minutes ago, Drained said:

MVP really solidifies the belief that the NFL and Media, despite saying W's and L's aren't a QB stat, that W's and L's are a QB stat.

I can't argue this. In a vacuum, Watson is probably in a fight with Russell Wilson for 3rd, and slowly working on getting even with Rodgers...

But, W\L matters.

[Archimedes]

3 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I would disagree here. I think Henry's season has been more impressive than Kamara's. I also think Henry is more valuable to his team, slightly. Tannehil and Henry compliment each other extremely well, and that offense doesn't work without either guy. For the Saints, Kamara has hardly even been a factor without Brees, been all Sean Payton really, and Brees is the clear engine of the offense.

Also, Henry has closed out multiple games for the Titans as well. And I also think he's straight up having a better statistical year than Kamara as well.

Henry shouldn’t be ahead of Kamara in the MVP for the same reason Brady is nowhere near Rodgers in the MVP running. Brady has thrown the ball more, but Rodgers does far more per attempt than Brady does.

Henry touches the ball more, but Kamara does far more with his actual touches. As far as his production dropping off without Brees, it’s because Taysom Hill is his qb now. Henry was similarly not as impactful when Mariotta was his qb. But this is also why RBs really shouldn’t be considered much anyway, absent BOTH conditions existing:

1) The RB has a historically dominant season, needs to be statistically quantifiable as arguably a top 3 or 4ish season all time for a RB

AND

2) There are no standout performances from a qb.

[Archimedes]

18 minutes ago, Drained said:

MVP really solidifies the belief that the NFL and Media, despite saying W's and L's aren't a QB stat, that W's and L's are a QB stat.

Dak Prescott could be putting up record-shattering numbers right now (if he wasn't injured of course) and he wouldn't be on this list or any journalists top 10 because "well he threw two ints on hail mary's and the cowboys are 4-7, but oooh look at this qb who has threw 1000 less yards than him and is not playing on the same level cus he has more wins"

You’re not wrong, although I don’t think Watson would be a very egregious MVP snub this year, given how well Mahomes and Rodgers are playing. 

But if Russ gets at least one vote, and I’m betting he will because of how big of a deal it was made in the media about him never getting a vote... Watson should get at least one too (although he won’t).

Edited December 2, 2020 by Archimedes

[DannyB]

18 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I'm sure Watson will be a prime MVP contender next year. I think there's only four elite QBs in the NFL which are Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, and Watson in any order you wanna put them in.

I think Watson is still juuust on the outside looking in, but I do think he's in a tier by himself as far as absolutely knocking on the door. The other three are on a level of their own, clearly separated from the rest of the league's QBs, as far as taking into account their peak abilities and the consistency of their greatness. Furthemore, I think Mahomes has also put himself a discernible step above everyone.

[DannyB]

6 minutes ago, Archimedes said:

Henry shouldn’t be ahead of Kamara in the MVP for the same reason Brady is nowhere near Rodgers in the MVP running. Brady has thrown the ball more, but Rodgers does far more per attempt than Brady does.

Henry touches the ball more, but Kamara does far more with his actual touches. As far as his production dropping off without Brees, it’s because Taysom Hill is his qb now. Henry was similarly not as impactful when Mariotta was his qb. But this is also why RBs really shouldn’t be considered much anyway, absent BOTH conditions existing:

1) The RB has a historically dominant season, needs to be statistically quantifiable as arguably a top 3 or 4ish season all time for a RB

AND

2) There are no standout performances from a qb.

In my mind's eye, Henry's performance this year seems more worthy of pushing his name into the conversation, but in reality you might totally be right. I think both names are worth keeping an eye on as far as this discussion goes. Kamara pretty much is that offense.