Bonanza23 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 7 hours ago, ditchdigger said: That seems good. Is that good? For a scrub midget? Mediocre at best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeHDruiD Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) Buno pretty much hit on what I was talking about with the whole thing. A lot of the deep passes were just forced, typically into double/triple coverage This offense evolved over time. It's not that I'm a stan for Odell but there is just so much unknown and 'what could be' but I understand some of the bitterness because he hasn't been the guy we were hoping for 19 we had no OL or scheme, early 20 the offense took some time to develop. Not to say they truly are better without him but we just don't know. He's the ultimate x-factor in this offensive equation. Either he crushes or he remains average. I'd like to find out Edited March 22, 2021 by TeHDruiD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeHDruiD Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 The lack of focus drops are out of hand though, I got tired of seeing them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 8 hours ago, bruceb said: Agree. Which means that Stefanski and/or Mayfield overestimated OBJ. Not overestimating but that you shouldn’t force those plays to OBJ and you shouldn’t force the deep pass in general we saw that the year before when Freddie was going for the home shot every drive and never setting it up. OBJ is a great short route guy because he can turn a slant into a TD but you have to run him deep to keep teams honest. I want to say the first Cincy game OBJ had a nice deep TD. You only force the deep ball when you have a talent like a Calvin Johnson or a Randy Moss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Well if we’re saying we were forcing a lot of deep balls to him, he’d have a high ADOT. Last year he was again behind Hodge, DPJ and Higgins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I’m not saying all of the issues are related to OBJ, but there are clearly issues there that don’t exist with literally every other WR. I do believe that Baker tried his best to keep him happy and engaged, and it was to the detriment of the entire offense. He definitely seemed to force passes his way. And while we can tell Baker he can’t do that, I think we’ve all seen the demonstrative behavior OBJ displays when he’s frustrated. When Baker throw to him, he’s rarely rewarded. Thomas already pointed out some of the metrics, but pretty much any metric you want to look at will support this. I mean, of all the receiving options on the team last season, Baker’s rating when throwing to OBJ was the 8th highest. (9th technically, but Lamm only caught the one pass). I get he looks flashy and twitched up at times, but he simply hasn’t been good here. Like, not even decent. He’s been given hella targets, done very little with them, has required gadget plays to make a big impact (another example of having to manufacture touches to keep him happy), and most importantly been a detriment to our starting QB and the key cog to this offense. I understand the “maybe next year” approach, but I don’t understand how people look at skeptics like “just you wait”. We’ve been waiting, he’s been terrible. Consistently. And by every objective metric. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 See my hope is that OBJ has been used as a security blanket. When baker wasn’t sure about things, he locked into his most talented WR. Which is a good thing to a point. All of ‘19 and early parts of last years baker was still unsure about things. I think that Cincy game is when things just started to click for him and Stef as the OC. I could def see a better OBJ and Baker connection. tbats the hope I’m clinging onto for this year at least with him. Hopefully no force feeding is needed because baker will come into the year with him knowing the offense and having confidence that he doesn’t need a WR that the WRs need him. That’s the approach I hope he takes at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I’m not saying all of the issues are related to OBJ, but there are clearly issues there that don’t exist with literally every other WR. I do believe that Baker tried his best to keep him happy and engaged, and it was to the detriment of the entire offense. He definitely seemed to force passes his way. And while we can tell Baker he can’t do that, I think we’ve all seen the demonstrative behavior OBJ displays when he’s frustrated. When Baker throw to him, he’s rarely rewarded. Thomas already pointed out some of the metrics, but pretty much any metric you want to look at will support this. I mean, of all the receiving options on the team last season, Baker’s rating when throwing to OBJ was the 8th highest. (9th technically, but Lamm only caught the one pass). I get he looks flashy and twitched up at times, but he simply hasn’t been good here. Like, not even decent. He’s been given hella targets, done very little with them, has required gadget plays to make a big impact (another example of having to manufacture touches to keep him happy), and most importantly been a detriment to our starting QB and the key cog to this offense. I understand the “maybe next year” approach, but I don’t understand how people look at skeptics like “just you wait”. We’ve been waiting, he’s been terrible. Consistently. And by every objective metric. tl;dr we need to get Kendall Lamm more involved 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeHDruiD Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Well if we’re saying we were forcing a lot of deep balls to him, he’d have a high ADOT. Last year he was again behind Hodge, DPJ and Higgins. I just remember several throws where I couldn't believe that was the best option. Baker got better with his decision making in the 2nd half of the season, it very well could have been Odell whining for the ball pre-injury but really only the team knows the answer to that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, TeHDruiD said: I just remember several throws where I couldn't believe that was the best option. Baker got better with his decision making in the 2nd half of the season, it very well could have been Odell whining for the ball pre-injury but really only the team knows the answer to that Oh he definitely took a few dumb shots, no doubt. And I get it in theory, lay that sucker out there and let the all pro make a play. He just never seemed to do so which only highlights the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinebackerGod Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 3 hours ago, NudeTayne said: tl;dr we need to get Kendall Lamm more involved Agreed. In terms of efficiency, he was clearly our #1 receiving threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I believe JJ3 said the same thing. not sure how many other QBs do this but it shows great leadership and maturity. Great knowing that Baker is being the first guy to make sure the new guys feel welcome. When he is said to be the leader of the team, things like this prove it. It’s easy do it when it’s a star RT or a stud TE, dudes who you will benefit from but for defensive guys. It shows a lot. I would assume he did it with Hill as well. He might finally be getting “it” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 2 hours ago, buno67 said: I believe JJ3 said the same thing. not sure how many other QBs do this but it shows great leadership and maturity. Great knowing that Baker is being the first guy to make sure the new guys feel welcome. When he is said to be the leader of the team, things like this prove it. It’s easy do it when it’s a star RT or a stud TE, dudes who you will benefit from but for defensive guys. It shows a lot. I would assume he did it with Hill as well. He might finally be getting “it” He has always been a team guy and a leader. He got "it" a long time ago. He was extremely popular among teammates in college. He has always been popular among teammates and players in general in the NFL. When Duke Johnson quit on the team Baker quit on him and I had zero issues with what he said but he knew he probably should have stayed out of it and learned from it. His "immaturity" label is more media related. He will defend himself and his team by firing back. He takes some hits because of that among fans and the media. He gains respect from him teammates. He knows what he is doing. He always knew what he was doing. He is the big brother, the leader, the guy who you know is in your corner when you suit up with him on gameday. I never questioned any of that. My only real question ever with him is would he be able to overcome the bad habits he picked up playing behind the terrible offensive line of 2019. It took a minute, but he made a rapid recovery. I couldn't be happier with what he is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Best game of his career. He did really well against Kansas City given the pure bull **** going on with KC’s secondary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 53 minutes ago, candyman93 said: Best game of his career. He did really well against Kansas City given the pure bull **** going on with KC’s secondary. That Cincy game was pretty special too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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