ET80 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 29 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Former and current players are holding zero ill will for Watson - and the former players are usually ones who call out present-day players for not appreciating what they have. Andre Johnson - perhaps the only noteworthy name in Texans history, probably the first Hall of Fame player in franchise history - said this as the Nick Caserio hiring happened: AJ - the only member of the Texans Ring of Honor, the only player to have his number retired by the team - has since doubled down on this original statement: https://www.si.com/nfl/texans/news/houston-legend-andre-johnson-blasts-texans-but-hopes-deshaun-watson-stays "I've been around this organization for a long time, and you know I worked there last season, and it's just certain things you see .... "certain things you see that you know that's not right," said Johnson "Us as players, we're in the locker room every day, we know what goes on with this team, so we're not telling you things to take over your organization, we're just trying to do things to help. And I think sometimes top people in the organization, they just don't listen to players. And that's something that I felt like I had to deal with a lot when I was here." Be mindful: Andre has perhaps the most unique insight of everyone who has commented on this situation: - He was a player under Bill O'Brien up until 2015. - He was part of the coaching staff until 2019. - He's the current Texans Ambassador, as named by the McNair family. So, he's a source that is literally inside every aspect of the building - there's not much he doesn't know about this team at present. He knows more than any other media member in or out of Houston, he has unlimited access to everything in the building... and this is what he chooses to say. So, it's not a big secret. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 7 hours ago, iknowcool said: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-notes-dont-underestimate-david-tepper-and-the-panthers-in-the-deshaun-watson-sweepstakes/ I get the impression that the Jets and Dolphins are gonna be the only 2 teams willing/capable of out-bidding the Panthers. It really depends. The Dolphins I could see, but they'd legitimately be burning all their recently accrued wealth of premium picks (Texans 2021 1st, Miami's own 2021 1st, Tu'a, and quite possibly at least a future 2nd). The Jets, it would really depend on how much Houston valued Sam Darnold on what's left of his rookie deal (which is what? His 5th-year option at this point?). Because if the alert that Sleeper put through today is true and, per a Panthers insider, Carolina is willing to put Christian McCaffrey on the table, it's possible that has more appeal Culley and the Texans than definitely Darnold (nearing the need to be extended if he were to be kept) and possibly even Tu'a, particularly if their staff is high on someone like Trey Lance and they feel like they can land him at Carolina's draft slot in the 1st (#8). Does Lance clearly need additional development? Yes. Are the Texans rebuilding and thus can afford the gamble on a high-ceiling guy they don't have to feel forced into starting until they feel he's ready, as they do have a sacrificial lamb in AJ McCarron while they're progressing their rebuild? Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brushmyhair Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 22 hours ago, GW21 said: I understand the idea of compensation, but there is something to be said about getting him out of the conference. Compensation is more important for houston as Bill O'brien stupidly traded picks away 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, GW21 said: I understand the idea of compensation, but there is something to be said about getting him out of the conference. 59 minutes ago, brushmyhair said: Compensation is more important for houston as Bill O'brien stupidly traded picks away Plus - you play NFC teams 1x every 4 years. You play AFC non divisional teams every 3 years. The only way you get extra games beyond that is if you both finish in the same spot in your division or if you meet in the playoffs. I think the odds HOU will be anything but a last place team for the next 2-3 years is low. If not longer given how McNair is sticking with Easterby. That also eliminates playoff games but also makes extra games unlikely. The best trade package probably matters a lot more given the difference isn’t likely to be that great in games played vs. Watson over the near future. Edited February 18, 2021 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Ding ding ding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggieCamp Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 19 hours ago, ET80 said: Andre Johnson - perhaps the only noteworthy name in Texans history, probably the first Hall of Fame player in franchise history - said this as the Nick Caserio hiring happened: AJ - the only member of the Texans Ring of Honor, the only player to have his number retired by the team. Be mindful: Andre has perhaps the most unique insight of everyone who has commented on this situation. You could say that he's an Elite Texan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said: You could say that he's an Elite Texan. He could also be called an Extra Terrestrial... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 14 hours ago, Dr LBC said: Does Lance clearly need additional development? Yes. Are the Texans rebuilding and thus can afford the gamble on a high-ceiling guy they don't have to feel forced into starting until they feel he's ready, as they do have a sacrificial lamb in AJ McCarron while they're progressing their rebuild? Yes. Any deal the Panthers do @ QB is going to have to involve Teddy too, unless they find another suitor. Clearly not a long-term option but at least it would give the Texans someone a bit more experience than McCarron to hold the fort down while Lance learns on the bench. I do think McCaffrey is going to have to be involved in a deal unless the Panthers are willing to give up Brian Burns or Derrick Brown... and as much as I love McCaffrey, it wouldn't be smart on our end. Burns and Brown are both on rookie contracts still and both have looked fantastic. So I think when you add him into the deal, like you said, it is more appealing to the Texans. McCaffrey has star-power, and it isn't like the Panthers have a bad pick. #8 overall is a very good spot. Right now I'd be willing for the team to give up McCaffrey, Bridgewater (although not sure how this would work out cap-wise for the Texans), 2020 1st and 2nd, 2021 1st and 2nd, and 2022 2nd (overall 2 1sts and 3 2nds). Or 2020 1st and 2nd, 2021 1st and 3rd, and 2022 1st (3 1sts, 1 2nd, 1 3rd). That's a lot, but we're talking about Watson on what could be one hell of a steal of contract when the cap rises. And regardless we are almost guaranteed to do something with the QB position this offseason involving the #8 overall pick, so I consider that a wash anyway. That still leaves Watson with a very young, talented team around him. Moore and Anderson at WR, although both will need to be extended at some points (Moore more-so than Anderson), and Moton likely to be tagged. I think if the Panthers trade McCaffrey, that makes it more likely we re-sign Samuel - we apparently offered him an extension in December and he wanted to test the market. The biggest problem for the Panthers offensively if they were to do that deal is we don't have an answer at LT yet. Some suggest we try Moton at that spot, but the risk outweighs the reward there in my opinion. We are in a good spot cap-wise after 2021 but lack of draft capital will make it more difficult to find one through the draft, potentially making us have to rely on FA. But you could have said the same about the Rams when they traded for Goff and they ended up getting Whitworth. That is the kind of approach we could take (looking for a veteran offensive lineman who isn't terribly expensive) while using some of our 3rd and 4th round picks on OL prospects we can develop in the mean time. I am getting more optimistic about our chances, at least compared to a month ago. It is a great combination of being a good fit for Watson, a good trade partner for the Texans, and a franchise that seems to be hell-bent on getting a franchise QB. 49ers are another team who I think could offer the Texans a great package. And considering how talented they are, they probably could offer an even better package than us. But I'm not sure how willing they are to do that. Panthers, at least from how they have spoken to the media, seem to be in a lot more of a hurry to move on from Teddy than the 49ers do Jimmy (who I'm sure they'd like to improve upon but maybe not to the point where they give up a lot of great players on rookie contracts and/or draft picks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingone Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 If I m the Texans I have zero interest in McCaffery. I would want Burns along with Brown or Chin and then shoot for the moon and get at least 3 1st rd picks also. No need to sell cheap. It makes little sense to take back players not on rookie contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, ravishingone said: If I m the Texans I have zero interest in McCaffery. I would want Burns along with Brown or Chin and then shoot for the moon and get at least 3 1st rd picks also. No need to sell cheap. It makes little sense to take back players not on rookie contracts. "At least" 3 1sts and Burns AND Brown? Panthers would not negotiate with that. Burns alone is likely worth multiple 1sts (which is what Adams got) when you consider he's on a rookie contract, his youth, his athleticism, and his pass-rush productivity in his career so far. If we make that their floor for a possible trade then Texans are gonna be left without any trade partners. Edited February 18, 2021 by iknowcool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 32 minutes ago, iknowcool said: "At least" 3 1sts and Burns AND Brown? Panthers would not negotiate with that. Burns alone is likely worth multiple 1sts (which is what Adams got) when you consider he's on a rookie contract, his youth, his athleticism, and his pass-rush productivity in his career so far. If we make that their floor for a possible trade then Texans are gonna be left without any trade partners. As a contrast, DEN could very well offer Lock, Chubb and 2 1sts / 2 2nds. Or a guy like Hamler. The beat writers haven't dismissed it, which says at least DEN is considering it. But the idea that there will be no buyers isn't correct - it's just a matter of who's putting the highest bid. The point that McCaffrey at 11M per year for RB, plus 3 1sts, may not be enough, isn't crazy. MIA is a team who could easily beat either package above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingone Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 28 minutes ago, iknowcool said: "At least" 3 1sts and Burns AND Brown? Panthers would not negotiate with that. Burns alone is likely worth multiple 1sts (which is what Adams got) when you consider he's on a rookie contract, his youth, his athleticism, and his pass-rush productivity in his career so far. If we make that their floor for a possible trade then Texans are gonna be left without any trade partners. Why would the Texans sell cheap, this is an unprecedented potential trade when we consider the QBs age and resume. Elway and Eli Manning trades were for rookies. Stafford is 32 with less playoff wins then Watson. Non Qbs have gone for 2 1st rds, so an in prime QB has to have significant value. Essentially any team acquiring Watson has solved their QB position for a decade with his 2nd contract negotiated and already with 29 million already paid. I consider that a lot of value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Broncofan said: As a contrast, DEN could very well offer Lock, Chubb and 2 1sts / 2 2nds. Or a guy like Hamler. The beat writers haven't dismissed it, which says at least DEN is considering it. But the idea that there will be no buyers isn't correct - it's just a matter of who's putting the highest bid. Which is still a lot less than "at least" 3 1st round picks, Derrick Brown, and Brian Burns. In your scenario you are only giving up one cornerstone DL and 2 1st and 2 2nds. In the scenario the person I quoted proposed, we are giving up 2 defensive cornerstones and at least 3 1st round picks. On top of that, Chubb is closer to extension time than Burns or Brown are. Regardless one thing I hadn't even considered: McCaffrey's dead cap. 24m in dead cap if we let him go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, Broncofan said: As a contrast, DEN could very well offer Lock, Chubb and 2 1sts / 2 2nds. Or a guy like Hamler. The beat writers haven't dismissed it, which says at least DEN is considering it. But the idea that there will be no buyers isn't correct - it's just a matter of who's putting the highest bid. The point that McCaffrey at 11M per year for RB, plus 3 1sts, may not be enough, isn't crazy. MIA is a team who could easily beat either package above. Does Bradley Chubb have that much value? I feel like his trade value has gone down since the Broncos drafted him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, iknowcool said: Which is still a lot less than "at least" 3 1st round picks, Derrick Brown, and Brian Burns. In your scenario you are only giving up one cornerstone DL and 2 1st and 2 2nds. In the scenario the person I quoted proposed, we are giving up 2 defensive cornerstones and at least 3 1st round picks. On top of that, Chubb is closer to extension time than Burns or Brown are. Regardless one thing I hadn't even considered: McCaffrey's dead cap. 24m in dead cap if we let him go. Sure about 3 firsts, Brown & Burns, but my point was just that 3 1sts and McCaffrey isn't likely to get it done, that's all. Edited February 18, 2021 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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