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The Raider Depreciation Thread 📉


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17 hours ago, big_palooka said:

What talent? Because to me reigning him in doesn't really address his problem. Nor does playing him closer to the LOS. He lacks ball skills and has no anticipation. He's a see ball, run to ball player who is always late, out of position or guessed wrong. Same problems in college that are translating. 

It's one thing to be a young player making some mistakes. Totally different to just visibly reckless and clueless. 

The fact we are hoping he can play close to the LOS tells you everything we need to know. He's a coverage liability so have to try and hide him. Which is awful for a first round draft pick. 

A good safety has to have instincts and anticipation. Abram is dog chasing cars. 

 

Obviously he hasn’t lived up to his draft status, but he’s explosive and a player I can see being successful playing more down hill. Play to his strengths and see if he has something. Guenthers scheme is being called complex and guys seem to have been confused, that’s no excuse to completely blow coverages and such. But I think if we can simplify things and just let him see ball hit ball more he can have a place. Not everyone has to be a superstar. What do you suggest we do with him? Scrap him after one year? I’m not arguing if he was worthy of a 1st, just that I can see him being a piece, similar to Mike Mitchell, who ended up having a pretty decent career. 

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9 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Heath actually played really well. He can fill in and the defense looked a lot better with him.

That's sort of the problem though, isn't it? 

He's undoubtedly better than Abram and the on-field product improved with him. But he wasn't a recent 1st Round pick. 

Heath's not an All-Star and doesn't have the "unrefined" "potential" Abram does. 

Unless Heath morphs into a superhuman, he'll always be chasing the guy making egregious mistakes. 

Him not playing over Abram and the outright refusal to play Joyner at FS when we clearly had nobody capable of handling it will forever be etched in my mind. How mind boggling can it possibly get, right? I'm not sure if it was ever verified who Agholor was eluding to, but my guess is guys who are clearly being given so much leash that they are practically untouchable despite repetitive f ups. 

Point is, I'm not optimistic about Heath actually pushing Abram. Not an indictment on him, as I think he's a better player. I just don't think he's good enough for the powers that be to make it an even competition. 

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8 hours ago, big_palooka said:

This is off base imo, because the premise for such comments is because Cam Chancelor was a a big hitting safety under Bradley. Chancelor however was an underrated coverage player and diagnosed like a true safety.  

I have thought about other players who have played in Bradley's system but I was not thinking about a comparison between the two specifically.  It was more about Bradley doing a good job of shaping his system to what the DBs do well.  All we have seen is how Abram played under Guenther who clearly had a negative impact on more than just Abram.  Do I think Bradley snaps his fingers and fixes Abram or he becomes the next Chancelor?  No.  The same way I do not think he comes in and Joyner becomes Earl Tomas.  I do believe that he will come in and Abram's play will improve and improve more than most others because he was clearly asked to do things last year that he did not know or understand.  There is a lot Abram will have to fix himself but having someone who can recognize your issues and help you work through them is a huge benefit.  Guenther just came in and said do this.  It's like paying for a golf lesson and the guy tells you to hit it down the middle.  You slice it and he says that's not good enough and hit it to left more.  He needs to be able to recognize why I am slicing it, then help me understand the mechanism that causes me to slice, and then give tips to correct the underlying deficiencies.  That is something players complained about that they had no idea, except the overall goal of stop the other team, why they were doing what he asked.  Bradley may not be the best DC in the league but I think he will have a hard time being worse than Guenther.

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4 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

That's sort of the problem though, isn't it? 

He's undoubtedly better than Abram and the on-field product improved with him. But he wasn't a recent 1st Round pick. 

Heath's not an All-Star and doesn't have the "unrefined" "potential" Abram does. 

Unless Heath morphs into a superhuman, he'll always be chasing the guy making egregious mistakes. 

Him not playing over Abram and the outright refusal to play Joyner at FS when we clearly had nobody capable of handling it will forever be etched in my mind. How mind boggling can it possibly get, right? I'm not sure if it was ever verified who Agholor was eluding to, but my guess is guys who are clearly being given so much leash that they are practically untouchable despite repetitive f ups. 

Point is, I'm not optimistic about Heath actually pushing Abram. Not an indictment on him, as I think he's a better player. I just don't think he's good enough for the powers that be to make it an even competition. 

I agree but I think he can be a good 3rd safety and fill-in at free safety if we have injuries. We need to sign a free safety and Harris is gone so we need to draft a 4th safety. I like the USC guy, but Holland or another versatile guy like Grant could also be good.

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2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I agree but I think he can be a good 3rd safety and fill-in at free safety if we have injuries. We need to sign a free safety and Harris is gone so we need to draft a 4th safety. I like the USC guy, but Holland or another versatile guy like Grant could also be good.

I really like the idea of signing Hooker, King, and cutting Joyner and Heath.  Would cost about the same and if Hooker goes down King can move to safety.  You could also sign a 3rd safety like Jalen Mills.

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Just now, drfrey13 said:

I really like the idea of signing Hooker, King, and cutting Joyner and Heath.  Would cost about the same and if Hooker goes down King can move to safety.  You could also sign a 3rd safety like Jalen Mills.

I'd like to hold on to heath, but I like where you're going with it.

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1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I'd like to hold on to heath, but I like where you're going with it.

I am not against keeping Heath if the market dries up but I think there are going to be a lot of options that well be upgrades that we can get as backups that will not cost as much.  Heath is like Richard to me.  I think he is a good decent player with a bad contract.  Saving money by getting rid of contracts like these is what will free up the money to get impact players.  If I told you we could sign Agholor for $12 million or cut Heath and Richard to get Allen Robinson or Golladay I would look to sign vet minimum players to replace Heath and Richard.

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On 3/2/2021 at 4:12 PM, MrOaktown_56 said:

I agree but I think he can be a good 3rd safety and fill-in at free safety if we have injuries. We need to sign a free safety and Harris is gone so we need to draft a 4th safety. I like the USC guy, but Holland or another versatile guy like Grant could also be good.

Bring back Abram/Heath, sign JJ3, and draft a developmental safety in round 3/4 like Paris Ford or Andre Cisco. 

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9 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Why are we Raider fans boys?

Because being a Raiders fan teaches you valuable life lessons about hope and optimism. Every season I come in optimistic that this will finally be the year we make the playoffs, I'm extremely interested in the games through the first part of the season, we collapse and I hate football. Then free agency and the draft roll around and I get excited, hey we were only a couple of plays away from 11-5, maybe we add a couple more guys and take the next step. Rinse, repeat. 

But honestly when/if we ever win a Super Bowl it is going to be the sweetest feeling ever. 

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12 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Why are we Raider fans boys?

 

that guy always trashing the Raiders lol. yeah the defense is always ugly football. hard to watch, it was actually comical at points last year. which is why I hope we go all defense in the draft, maybe add one OL on day 2

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2 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

that guy always trashing the Raiders lol. yeah the defense is always ugly football. hard to watch, it was actually comical at points last year. which is why I hope we go all defense in the draft, maybe add one OL on day 2

He does but he's not wrong. 

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  • 3 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/17/2021 at 5:45 PM, RaidersAreOne said:

 

Haha, the LB actually hesitated when he saw Riddick skip out of the way, I guess he couldn't believe the guy just sh!t out, Riddick owes Mariota a beer or two I reckon 🍺

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Just wondering how many Pro Bowl players we've actually drafted ourselves in the last 10 years ..........

I can think of Mack, Carr, Cooper, Jacobs and Murray maybe? Was Gabe Jackson ever a Pro Bowler?

That's dreadful if it's only those guys and three of those we traded away 😂😂

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