Jump to content

The Raider Depreciation Thread 📉


RaidersAreOne

Recommended Posts

33 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Is Derek Carr still the QB, then yes, I'm sure. 

A "rebuild" would consist of trading for picks and trying to restock. They have their core, need a few years to accumulate better talent and depth across the roster. 

phrases like "They will need a few years"  imply rebuild(that we are not competitive now and that we won't until some unforeseeable future." 

Edited by Jeremy408
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

phrases like "They will need a few years"  imply rebuild(that we are not competitive now and that we won't until some unforeseeable future." 

A rebuild implies you tore the roster down ala 2018. They did the opposite. They secured a core group of players for a 3 year window including the veteran QB. They cut dead weight and bloated contracts to get off the books. Signed some value FAs to short term contracts.

They are now analyzing the roster. Trying to compete now with an eye on the future as DZ has alluded. They have been competitive with one anomaly last week.

There is a plan in place.  They know they have talent in areas, but the roster is not a level to compete in January with teams like the Bills and Chiefs. They will continue to carry out their vision as they clear the books and deadweight from the last regime. 

Anyway... carry on man. You're not looking to add anything of value to the conversation. You don't like McDaniels, that's fine fire away. I'll wait to judge when I see how their vision takes shape.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, big_palooka said:

A rebuild implies you tore the roster down ala 2018. They did the opposite. They secured a core group of players for a 3 year window including the veteran QB. They cut dead weight and bloated contracts to get off the books. Signed some value FAs to short term contracts.

They are now analyzing the roster. Trying to compete now with an eye on the future as DZ has alluded. They have been competitive with one anomaly last week.

There is a plan in place.  They know they have talent in areas, but the roster is not a level to compete in January with teams like the Bills and Chiefs. They will continue to carry out their vision as they clear the books and deadweight from the last regime. 

Anyway... carry on man. You're not looking to add anything of value to the conversation. You don't like McDaniels, that's fine fire away. I'll wait to judge when I see how their vision takes shape.  

The problem the line of reasoning that you've given is you have to insert concepts without factual evidence. 
 

and then in order to cement the point you have to just say blanket statements like "you don't like McDaniels" to make it as if it's an emotional point and not a logical one. The opposite ends up being true where lot of the points you've made appear to be emotional points are not logical ones. 
 

It was like earlier in the week were you made the point that Mcdaniels was highly sought after as opposed to his previous merit as a head coach or even a Coordinator. I see that these don't appear to points that are based on what's actually happening but always based on what will happen or what is expected to happen. 
 

Or how about mentioning that we're not ready to compete with the Chiefs when we lose to them by field goal because we went for two for no reason(which is a coaches decision not a players decision). That wasn't a talent issue that was a coaching issue. When it's third and one and we give the ball to Devante Adams instead of the running back who is top 5  in the league in rushing and then the very next play go for a fake field goal, that's not a talent issue.

these things have nothing to do with how you or I or anyone else feels about  Mcdaniels. that's bad playcalling/decision making.

You can't turn a logical argument into an emotional argument. 

Also just so this is on record: Where does Chandler Jones fit into all of this? Is he a bloated contract. Or is he part of the core players?

As for me and how I actually feel: I hope we turn it around(you know because I'm a raider fan) but looking at how things have gone thus far in combination to how both Josh McDaniel has done in the past and patriots hires have done in the past, It currently looks more in line with that then it does Them to being the first from the teachers tree to actually make another franchise successful. but again that's looking at the honest evidences so far

Edited by Jeremy408
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Going in circles at this point. It's been 7 games. I'll reserve judgment at the end of the season.

Some of you had to high of expectations and are ready to throw the baby out with the bath water after 7 games. Of which they've been competitive in all of them. 

Enjoy the rest of the season. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

phrases like "They will need a few years"  imply rebuild(that we are not competitive now and that we won't until some unforeseeable future." 

Most people said they made moves that gave them a 2-3 year window. 
That is not a rebuild. 
We are still in our "window" just wasted the first year (most likely being 2-5). 
We need to hope it was a 3 year window at this point. We have a lot of money tied up the next 2 seasons, itll be tough to rebuild. 

A rebuild is what Gruden did and gutted the entire team. Everyone knew that first year was going to be rough. Some still put all the blame on 1 player, but we knew going into that year it was going to be tough. 

We did not rebuild this past offseason. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think some are confusing terms on here.  Rebuild is a complete tear down and start over, like what the Dolphins did a couple years ago. Gruden did it in 2018.

At the same time, just because we didn't rebuild doesn't mean that we will automatically be successful.  Choosing to reload isn't a guarantee of success.

None of this would even matter if we had some luck in the first 7 games and were sitting at 4-3 at least.  We didn't get lucky in any way, so we just have to continue forward. The plan hasn't changed as far as the new regime is concerned.

I understand it stinks for us fans.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We more of a retool than a rebuild. A rebuild is similar to what the Chicago Bears have done the last two seasons and what we did the 1st season under Reggie Mac

 

The jettison almost all high priced vets and reshaped their team.  The Bears look to be on the path to a successful rebuild. They have a good up and coming QB. Several draft picks are peaking for them with over 110M in cap space for next season and additional draft capital. Now they used part of the capital to bring in Claypool. 

Edited by bucksavage1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

I apologize I meant to say we are 32nd in sacks with 9.

Ah, that’s more like it. 


Oh boy do I miss the days of Howie Long, Greg Townsend, Chester McGlockton, Darrell Russell and those bygone days when our DLine was feared!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Going in circles at this point. It's been 7 games. I'll reserve judgment at the end of the season.

Some of you had to high of expectations and are ready to throw the baby out with the bath water after 7 games. Of which they've been competitive in all of them. 

Enjoy the rest of the season. 

 

Curious how many years do you think it will take?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Curious how many years do you think it will take?

Everything looks to be built around a 3 year window. They trimmed the roster of dead weight to clear the cap going forward. They have 25 players being assessed who will hit FA this offseason.

My guess is they will look to bolster the defense via the draft and FA this offseason. Team will be competitive in 2023 and 2024 will be the big year for this current group of veterans.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Everything looks to be built around a 3 year window. They trimmed the roster of dead weight to clear the cap going forward. They have 25 players being assessed who will hit FA this offseason.

My guess is they will look to bolster the defense via the draft and FA this offseason. Team will be competitive in 2023 and 2024 will be the big year for this current group of veterans.

 

Interesting 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Everything looks to be built around a 3 year window. They trimmed the roster of dead weight to clear the cap going forward. They have 25 players being assessed who will hit FA this offseason.

My guess is they will look to bolster the defense via the draft and FA this offseason. Team will be competitive in 2023 and 2024 will be the big year for this current group of veterans.

 

We have 30 players under contract and $31 million in cap space next year.  Very little room to cut players to get cap relief besides Carr.  We have a lot of picks but most are in the 6th or 7th round.  That is not a recipe for success our roster improvement.  2024 we have a similar problem but a little more wiggle room.  We are to top heavy and to many of the players at the top are not performing up to their contracts.  McDaniels and Ziegler screwed up going all in this year.  We can improve but we are going to need some luck, leadership, and good coaching to develop players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

We have 30 players under contract and $31 million in cap space next year.  Very little room to cut players to get cap relief besides Carr.  We have a lot of picks but most are in the 6th or 7th round.  That is not a recipe for success our roster improvement.  2024 we have a similar problem but a little more wiggle room.  We are to top heavy and to many of the players at the top are not performing up to their contracts.  McDaniels and Ziegler screwed up going all in this year.  We can improve but we are going to need some luck, leadership, and good coaching to develop players.

I'm not keen on the cap and what restructuring, etc. will be done to free up space for 2023. The 3 year window includes 2024 with this core group. And I imagine we'll see progress with this group. 

Offensively, they need to bolster the Oline. And you have Parham, Munford that you hope take the step up in year 2.

The bulk of resources can and need to be applied to the defense. iDL should be the focus in FA. That will have the most impact. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

We have 30 players under contract and $31 million in cap space next year.  Very little room to cut players to get cap relief besides Carr.  We have a lot of picks but most are in the 6th or 7th round.  That is not a recipe for success our roster improvement.  2024 we have a similar problem but a little more wiggle room.  We are to top heavy and to many of the players at the top are not performing up to their contracts.  McDaniels and Ziegler screwed up going all in this year.  We can improve but we are going to need some luck, leadership, and good coaching to develop players.


In the offseason, I believe we’re gonna trade either Waller or Renfrow and let Carr walk or agree to a trade. What we do with Jacobs is key. Ziegs seems to know that running back hit the wall around year 5-6. 
 

Take a page out of Seattle and Miami playbook. Decrease the QB salary allocation and bolster team with the savings. There’s 4-5 1st round QBs this draft. Perhaps Stidham can be a bridge QB until they are ready to start 

All 3 levels of defense needs help , DT, LB and CB. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I'm not keen on the cap and what restructuring, etc. will be done to free up space for 2023. The 3 year window includes 2024 with this core group. And I imagine we'll see progress with this group. 

Offensively, they need to bolster the Oline. And you have Parham, Munford that you hope take the step up in year 2.

The bulk of resources can and need to be applied to the defense. iDL should be the focus in FA. That will have the most impact. 

 

Problem #1 is the development of o-line.  Parham has shown promise but also has issues.  He can develop into a really good guard but that will be 2024 at the earliest.  Munford has played good for a 7th round pick but that is a pretty low bar.  If he becomes average it is a win but that is also going to take another year or 2.  If we want to immediately upgrade the o-line we need to use high draft picks or spend a large percentage of our remaining cap.  If we stay with what we have I think the ceiling for this line is to be average in 2024.  

Problem #2 defensive draft pick, especially iDL, take time to develop.  DTs are pretty much garbage year 1.  Best case scenario is we get production from a highly drafted DT in 2024.

After we spent all of our cap space this year and traded away our high draft picks I said the only way this team improves is going to come down to coaching.  That was assuming the team would play at a boarder line playoff level.  No need to argue why the team is playing awful but if we can become a borderline playoff team next year that is a win.  If we are lucky and FA and the draft go our way at the same time we do a good job of developing as a team we could become a top 10 team.  We will not however be a contender in this time period and that is with everything going our way the next 2 off-season's.  My plan was to mitigate risk and strike at an opportune time.  What we have down is blowing up in our faces so far and it was a foreseeable outcome.

3 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:


In the offseason, I believe we’re gonna trade either Waller or Renfrow and let Carr walk or agree to a trade. What we do with Jacobs is key. Ziegs seems to know that running back hit the wall around year 5-6. 
 

Take a page out of Seattle and Miami playbook. Decrease the QB salary allocation and bolster team with the savings. There’s 4-5 1st round QBs this draft. Perhaps Stidham can be a bridge QB until they are ready to start 

All 3 levels of defense needs help , DT, LB and CB. 

If we let Carr walk then what was the point of everything else?  That would take the front office swallowing their pride and admitting a huge mistake.  If anything I see Graham getting canned and being made the excuse.  Trading Waller and/or Renfrow probably does not happen.  They are getting paid like major contributors and their play does not justify it.  Both carry large cap hits next year and a team would need incentive to take on the contract.  @big_palooka is right about the 3 year window but what you are saying blows that up after year 1.  They would be seen as a huge failure.  For them to retain their jobs they would have to prove they can improve in year 2 no matter who they bring in or get rid of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...