The Raider Depreciation Thread 📉

[Steins Gate]

19 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

You only need one criteria to show the defense is keeping the team in the game.  With the exception of 1 loss the  offense has had the ball with a chance to win.

Week 1 - 24-19 with 3:30 left @ LV 21

Week 2 - 23 -23 with 5:30 left in OT @ LV 37

Week 3 - 24 - 10 at half.  Titans held to zero point and 2 TOs in 2nd half.  Titans had the ball for 12 min.

Week 5 - 30 - 29 with 2:29 left @ LV 7

Week 8 - 24 - 20 with 9:56 left.  Jags held to a punt, missed FG, and a made FG after offensive TO in which the D gave up 9 yards before the FG.  Jags average TOP on 3 drives was 2:22 and less than 30 yards.

Week 9 - This one is a little different because they gave up a score late to lose the lead but once again the offense was in a position to still win the game.  25-20 with 5:07 left @ LV 25.

 

Not saying the defense has played well but they have done enough to give the offense the opportunity to win the game.  At the beginning of the year if I would have told you the offense would have these opportunities and 2 of the other 3 games were wins what would you have said our record would or should be and what would your opinion of the defense be?  

Nobody is saying that the offense is perfect, but there are multiple phases to the game. The defense has to do it's job and the numbers show that it doesn't from an overall perspective.

Adding to my point, I got this from a poster in another sub forum.

Quote

In football when you are winning everything you do and say is wise.

When you are losing it is converse.  No matter the words - they are heard as moronic to most ears.  

When we are losing 15-17 people will still complain about defense.  If we could have held them that last drive we win.  

When we are losing 35-38 people will still  complain about offense.   If we could have scored that last drive we win.   

It is human nature and the natural reaction when it comes to football culture. 

We are all human beings here....

[NYRaider]

23 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

 

3 TD's doesn't mean anything you bozo, plus we've changed OC's a lot, didn't you know?

[drfrey13]

27 minutes ago, true2form said:

They have kept the score close surprisingly, I can't explain or argue with that. However, I have no faith in them that if the offense had scored after any of those stops, the other team wouldn't have just marched down and won the game. Most of these are straight up blown leads that then we all go, offense please bail us out again!

Week 1 blame goes to Carr. 

Week 2 the defense is completely to blame. You can say the offense slowed down all you want, but the defense doesn't have to give up points just because the offense didn't score.  Ask the Broncos. Blown lead. 20-0

Week 3 Defense spotted them 24 points.  Glad the defense showed up in the 2nd half, but I'm guessing that's more to do with the Titans running out the clock and taking their foot off the gas.

Week 5 Don't know how you can say anything bad about the offense in a game they scored 29 points. Another blown lead. 17-0

Week 8 All that's great 17-0 blown lead

Week 9 Blown lead

 

 

Your defense is going to let scores happen.  Even the best defenses give up points.

Week 1 is undeniable and nobody is going to argue there.

Week 2  I have no clue how you can say blown lead when the offense was given the ball in OT and had a fumble returned for a TD.  The defense never allowed the Cards to take the lead.

Week 3   We were down 2 scores at the half.  Was not a huge lead and the defense gave up almost nothing.  The offense could not do anything.  The defense limited the Titans to 12 minutes TOP.  Not to mention the offense having 6 red zone trips and producing 2 TDs, 3 FGs, and 1 TO.  So yes I put a lot of blame on the offense.

Week 5 Good production but once again they crapped the bed at the end which was my original point.  Also we tie the game if they just kick the extra point.  Yes we gave up a 17 point lead to the best offense in the league at the same time our offense slowed.  We needed both sides of the ball that game and we came up short on both sides.

Week 8 If the offense does not die in the second half (65 yards, 0 points, 3 punts and 2 TOs) the defense would most likely would not have given up the lead.  Just getting a TD in the 2nd half stops us from going for it on 4th down in our own territory.  The defense gave up 10 points on the 1st and 14 in the 2nd.  I do not count the last FG because we turned the ball over and they were already in FG range.

Week 9 This week I will not make excuses for the defense because they did give up the score late but once again the offense could not come through.

I am not going to say the defense is good but we knew that.  I am not happy with 25 points per game but I am more upset with the offense producing 22.6 points per game.  Once again if I told you the defense would average 25 points per game how many games would you think we win?  A lot more than 2 would be my guess.

 

[NYRaider]

27 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Once again if I told you the defense would average 25 points per game how many games would you think we win?  A lot more than 2 would be my guess.

If you had told everyone before the season that the defense would be giving up less PPG then they did last year and had only given up 30+ one time through the first 9 weeks, most would have been ecstatic. 

[jpaulthe1st]

4 hours ago, NYRaider said:

If you had told everyone before the season that the defense would be giving up less PPG then they did last year and had only given up 30+ one time through the first 9 weeks, most would have been ecstatic. 

Look I’m ready to lay a lot of the blame at the feet of the offense but you can’t deny that the only reason why the Defense isn’t giving up more points is because PG seems to prefer not giving up big plays and generally dials up incredibly soft coverage schemes. This leads to long time consuming drives that limit possessions for both the Raiders O and their opponent.

The PPG metric doesn’t hold much water with me because PG is basically using a stall out method of Defense. It’s like saying Princeton was an elite defensive team in basketball in the 80’s and 90’s because they used up the entire shot clock on every possession to limit the other team’s scoring opportunities. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by jpaulthe1st

[drfrey13]

2 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

Look I’m ready to lay a lot of the blame at the feet of the offense but you can’t deny that the only reason why the Defense isn’t giving up more points is because PG seems to prefer not giving up big plays and generally dials up incredibly soft coverage schemes. This leads to long time consuming drives that limit possessions for both the Raiders O and their opponent.

The PPG metric doesn’t hold much water with me because PG is basically using a stall out method of Defense. It’s like saying Princeton was an elite defensive team in basketball in the 80’s and 90’s because they used up the entire shot clock on every possession to limit the other team’s scoring opportunities. 

Nice reference.  They still beat UCLA in the tourney.

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

Look I’m ready to lay a lot of the blame at the feet of the offense but you can’t deny that the only reason why the Defense isn’t giving up more points is because PG seems to prefer not giving up big plays and generally dials up incredibly soft coverage schemes. This leads to long time consuming drives that limit possessions for both the Raiders O and their opponent.

The PPG metric doesn’t hold much water with me because PG is basically using a stall out method of Defense. It’s like saying Princeton was an elite defensive team in basketball in the 80’s and 90’s because they used up the entire shot clock on every possession to limit the other team’s scoring opportunities. 

So essentially he has the same philosophy as Gus Bradley, bend but don't break. 

[jpaulthe1st]

Just now, NYRaider said:

So essentially he has the same philosophy as Gus Bradley, bend but don't break. 

Exactly - it’s actually more of a “Bend and then eventually break” in PG’s case 

[drfrey13]

8 hours ago, Steins Gate said:

Nobody is saying that the offense is perfect, but there are multiple phases to the game. The defense has to do it's job and the numbers show that it doesn't from an overall perspective.

Adding to my point, I got this from a poster in another sub forum.

We are all human beings here....

I would argue that if the defense has put the ball in the hands of the offense at the end of the game with a chance to win it that would be a huge factor in doing their job.  Now if our offense was on fire and they still needed to score to win then I would say that point does not hold true.  However our offense is averaging 22 PPG and has still been given the chance to win it in the end.  You can point to the bad Saints game but that one is not in question as are neither of the wins.  Therefore the games the offense is criticized for we have averaged 22.1 points per game.

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, jpaulthe1st said:

Exactly - it’s actually more of a “Bend and then eventually break” in PG’s case 

But his defense actually allows less PPG then Bradley's did last yer.

[jpaulthe1st]

Just now, NYRaider said:

But his defense actually allows less PPG then Bradley's did last yer.

Opposing teams have scored 100% of the time in goal-to-go situations. That’s the epitome of “bend and eventually break” 

[drfrey13]

12 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

Exactly - it’s actually more of a “Bend and then eventually break” in PG’s case 

Yes.  Just holding teams to one FG instead of a TD per game and we have the 14th ranked scoring defense.  It is a simplistic way of looking at it but we would then be 5-4 with a chance to turn it around.

[Steins Gate]

2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I would argue that if the defense has put the ball in the hands of the offense at the end of the game with a chance to win it that would be a huge factor in doing their job.  Now if our offense was on fire and they still needed to score to win then I would say that point does not hold true.  However our offense is averaging 22 PPG and has still been given the chance to win it in the end.  You can point to the bad Saints game but that one is not in question as are neither of the wins.  Therefore the games the offense is criticized for we have averaged 22.1 points per game.

So your point is that the offense should be better based on the combination of talent and having an "offensive guru" at HC calling the plays? Or is this about Carr?

I personally believe that both units needs to be better. Also, if the defense were at least middle of the road like the offense, the W/L record would be better. Having a middle of the road offense and a bottom 3 defense is not a recipe for wins.

[Geezy]

The thing about the offense being middle of the road is that we’ve allocated a bunch of cap on that side of the ball and we’re supposed to have some sort of boy wonder leading the way. Not excusing the D, but this team was built for the offense to be the strength of this team. Doesn’t mean the D should suck this bad, just that them being bottom tier while the offense is just average is why we are on the verge of picking top 5. We’re underperforming on both sides of the ball. 

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, jpaulthe1st said:

Opposing teams have scored 100% of the time in goal-to-go situations. That’s the epitome of “bend and eventually break” 

But at the end of the day we're still allowing less points which means they're getting there less.