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GDT 9/20/20 Week 2: 1-0 Baltimore Ravens vs 0-1 Houston Texans


DreamKid

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3 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Wired-

 

Will be far tough for Ingram to reach NFL goals than Campbell. Calais could realistically reach that goal after this season. Needing just 11 more sacks, he’s well within the range of completing that endeavor. Ingram will probably need another 4-5 years to reach 10,000 yds rushing... unless I misunderstood him and he was simply referring to 10,000 YFS, in which case he’s got about as good a chance of completing that feat as Campbell getting an additional 11 sacks this season.

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4 hours ago, drd23 said:

 

OL grades were higher than I expected for a couple of players

Well personally after reviewing that stunt play that he attributed 2/3 blame to Philips on, I don’t know how much I trust his analysis there. He mentions that Philips passes of the DT, yet fails to attribute blame on the play to Skura for taking such an extended period of time to accept the handoff? That same DT, being the player that initially blew the play up to penetrate into the backfield?

He sees the play, acknowledges what happened, yet doesn’t adversely impact Skura on the play? What’s more he doesn’t adversely impact Bozeman on the play for not being in position for Watt on the loop?

I won’t pretend to act like I watch EVERY PLAY so thoroughly. But I have watched that play well over 20x. I won’t pretend to watch over every play for the OL in a game like he does. Thus I can neither call into question his analysis overall or not, but I will call that play’s analysis into question for sure. I’ve also lambasted Philips on that play, for other reasons, but this complete disregard for Skura’s negative contributions on that play is frustrating.

He’s getting a pass for poor performance. I see this no differently than the 2 gap DT who knifes through a gap only to give up a ginormous run play after the OL is now able to get to the second level to block and spring a runner. The onlooker might think the DT exploded through the LOS and thus did well vs realizing his responsibility was to 2 gap and keep the LB clean to make the play. But when he shoots through he’s exposing the LBer and making him look bad. Now I’m left wondering if McKusick does this with each Skura play he grades and thus leads to an inflated result over where it should be.

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5 hours ago, drd23 said:

 

This guy gives a quality breakdown. I’d say perhaps I’ll give Averett a second chance. I mean, I don’t have much hope because we’re now three years into Averett’s career and I’ve similarly seen corners who can display great coverage but never get their head around or stumbling at the end of their coverage, and overall just find ways to get beat. Averett seems like that guy. So regardless of his tight coverage, until he can actually make enough plays on the ball, I can’t trust the guy. Though two pick 6s against Mahomes would certainly go a long way in making me reconsider my position. 

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16 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Well personally after reviewing that stunt play that he attributed 2/3 blame to Philips on, I don’t know how much I trust his analysis there. He mentions that Philips passes of the DT, yet fails to attribute blame on the play to Skura for taking such an extended period of time to accept the handoff? That same DT, being the player that initially blew the play up to penetrate into the backfield?

He sees the play, acknowledges what happened, yet doesn’t adversely impact Skura on the play? What’s more he doesn’t adversely impact Bozeman on the play for not being in position for Watt on the loop?

I won’t pretend to act like I watch EVERY PLAY so thoroughly. But I have watched that play well over 20x. I won’t pretend to watch over every play for the OL in a game like he does. Thus I can neither call into question his analysis overall or not, but I will call that play’s analysis into question for sure. I’ve also lambasted Philips on that play, for other reasons, but this complete disregard for Skura’s negative contributions on that play is frustrating.

He’s getting a pass for poor performance. I see this no differently than the 2 gap DT who knifes through a gap only to give up a ginormous run play after the OL is now able to get to the second level to block and spring a runner. The onlooker might think the DT exploded through the LOS and thus did well vs realizing his responsibility was to 2 gap and keep the LB clean to make the play. But when he shoots through he’s exposing the LBer and making him look bad. Now I’m left wondering if McKusick does this with each Skura play he grades and thus leads to an inflated result over where it should be.

Watt is not near the B gap for more than 2 seconds, so Boze commit to help Stanley. I don't see anything wrong here, other than that I would prefer he just has a hand on the rusher and stay more square while looking to see if anything comes his way.

We might see it the same way, but just put different emphasis on the impact on the play. The play was already over once Watt ran into the gap

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2 minutes ago, Danand said:

Watt is not near the B gap for more than 2 seconds, so Boze commit to help Stanley. I don't see anything wrong here, other than that I would prefer he just has a hand on the rusher and stay more square while looking to see if anything comes his way.

We might see it the same way, but just put different emphasis on the impact on the play. The play was already over once Watt ran into the gap

It was indeed over I agree. But my problem with Bozeman there is a lack of discipline. Sure your average QB is supposed to get the ball out in 3 seconds or so on a given play. Sure Watt was already at/past said time period (I didn’t time stamp it but I would imagine it was at least that).

But the way I see it, a guy being out of position for a dumb reason isn’t something I’m excusing. What if we’ve got long developing routes and one of them could be a touchdown but the play ends up in Lamar having to tuck it and run because Skura couldn’t hold Watt for the additional half second?

If I’m coaching the OL, I’m not giving Skura a pass there like Ken. So if McKusick is choosing when to give guys passes and when not to, to me its no different than a corner getting beat on a route but the QB missed it. I’m not going to grade the corner positively or neutrally for a play that he was out of position on but it didn’t technically impact the plays results. Results should not equate to quality though IMO. Sure I’m not going to expect an engaged OL to have his man blocked for 4-5 seconds (especially not against a talented front like Houston has), just like I’m not expecting a corner to last that long in coverage.

But if a corner is in zone coverage and blows a zone but the WR doesn’t arrive into said space until roughly 4 seconds into the play, then quickly trips and falls, and the ball falls incomplete. Technically that play doesn’t result in a negative effect for the defense, but is IMO something to work on, thus it should earn a critical mark of some sort.

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I sometimes suspect Filmstudy for having either some bias, or some way og measuring succes/failure. Sometimes I disagree with him, but most of the time I think his overall analysis is on point.

If people want to dig through his post, they will find that he scored Ben Powers as though as he made his blocks on the two snaps he played against the Browns, where I thought he lost both snaps - 1 where he was pushed back even though he was double teaming the DT, and I also think he lost the second rep where he wasn't able to actively use his hands.

So there is some disagreement at times, but I think he is one of the more sound analysts.

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2 hours ago, Danand said:

I sometimes suspect Filmstudy for having either some bias, or some way og measuring succes/failure. Sometimes I disagree with him, but most of the time I think his overall analysis is on point.

If people want to dig through his post, they will find that he scored Ben Powers as though as he made his blocks on the two snaps he played against the Browns, where I thought he lost both snaps - 1 where he was pushed back even though he was double teaming the DT, and I also think he lost the second rep where he wasn't able to actively use his hands.

So there is some disagreement at times, but I think he is one of the more sound analysts.

Exactly. I know I don’t have the time (because I’m not paid to) look over this kind of stuff and sit and watch all those plays, so I can’t blame him.

Also my first watch of the play, I also thought the blame fell on Philips. So I suspect that it’s less him not recognizing what was going on and more him only watching the play a couple times and then calling it a day... since he’s watching some 60-70 snaps of the game. If it were me, I’d probably cut corners as well. And I doubt most plays provide such complexity of “who to blame” as stunts and such where you might have to watch it a few times to truly grasp what’s going on. So I suppose it makes sense that he’s generally on point. He’s got a trained eye, he's just human and probably occasionally cuts corners. That and he obviously grades things a bit differently than me. I want discipline on a given play. I know some OL coaches want guys to just hit somebody if they make a mistake, show effort. That’s just not me. I want controlled/intelligent aggression.  

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5 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Exactly. I know I don’t have the time (because I’m not paid to) look over this kind of stuff and sit and watch all those plays, so I can’t blame him.

 

One clarification. I don’t think anyone pays KM to watch. He may get something for regular radio appearances (unless he’s paid in publicity), but I believe this is very much a labor of love for him. He used to contribute to RSR and now the filmstudy site is his own side endeavor. 
 

 

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19 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Well personally after reviewing that stunt play that he attributed 2/3 blame to Philips on, I don’t know how much I trust his analysis there. He mentions that Philips passes of the DT, yet fails to attribute blame on the play to Skura for taking such an extended period of time to accept the handoff? That same DT, being the player that initially blew the play up to penetrate into the backfield?

He sees the play, acknowledges what happened, yet doesn’t adversely impact Skura on the play? What’s more he doesn’t adversely impact Bozeman on the play for not being in position for Watt on the loop?

What in the world are you talking about? The DT that Skura blocks doesn't get anywhere near Lamar. The idea that the DT blows up the play there is flat out inaccurate. 

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1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said:

What in the world are you talking about? The DT that Skura blocks doesn't get anywhere near Lamar. The idea that the DT blows up the play there is flat out inaccurate. 

I don’t know what to tell you there bud. I’ve watched the play like 20x. The DT that Skura engages doesn’t blow up the play BECAUSE Philips stays engaged on him far longer than he should have on that pass. It’s why @Danand initially thought he swam past Philips. That DT is still able to penetrate the gap between Skura and Philips because of Skura’s late pickup.

Skura being late keeps Philips from being able to drop back into his depth and pick up the blitzer. Without that depth he stood no chance against the speed of the rusher. If Philips doesn’t hold up the DT on his pass for as long as he does the DT has immediate pressure up the middle. The only reason he doesn’t is because of Phillips, has little to do with Skura‘s contributions. Thus Skura is the biggest culprit for this plays failure. I’ve already broken this play down far more thoroughly in another thread and discussed this play thoroughly with @Danand I really don’t have much intention of doing it again.

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10 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

I don’t know what to tell you there bud. I’ve watched the play like 20x. The DT that Skura engages doesn’t blow up the play BECAUSE Philips stays engaged on him far longer than he should have on that pass. It’s why @Danand initially thought he swam past Philips. That DT is still able to penetrate the gap between Skura and Philips because of Skura’s late pickup.

Skura being late keeps Philips from being able to drop back into his depth and pick up the blitzer. Without that depth he stood no chance against the speed of the rusher. If Philips doesn’t hold up the DT on his pass for as long as he does the DT has immediate pressure up the middle. The only reason he doesn’t is because of Phillips, has little to do with Skura‘s contributions. Thus Skura is the biggest culprit for this plays failure. I’ve already broken this play down far more thoroughly in another thread and discussed this play thoroughly with @Danand I really don’t have much intention of doing it again.

Ok I found the post on the other thread. You are mistakenly saying that the DT is penetrating the gap, whereas really the DT is running himself out of the play. He doesn't come within 3 yards of Lamar.

I don't think you understand the nature of pass blocking. You don't seek to engage the defender. You blame Skura for "taking such an extended period of time to accept the handoff". That's just not how pass blocking works. You wait for rusher to come into your area.  

What bothers me is that you are impugning the integrity of Ken McKusick. He does a tremendous job and has no incentive to be biased. I'd say your anti-Skura biases are fully on display here. I wouldn't have spoken up if you had just talked about the play, but after the things you said about Ken, I don't feel that was right. 

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We are not "impugning" (don't know the word though) the integrity of Ken McKusick by saying he can be biased. He can unknowingly favor a player, in this case Skura.

I don't think me or DB has anything particularly against Skura, Looking at it first, I thought Phillips was beat on the move, but as DB pointed out, he never really engages with Omenihu, but instead turns immediately to his right. This could indicate, that Omenihu is Skuras man to block, and Omenihu indeed is the one who collapses the play. We don't know the assignment, so there is basis for being wrong for everyone trying to figuring out what happened. In this situation, I side with DB regarding not to put the blame on Omenihu to Phillips as Ken McKusick did.

IF, Watt had been supposed to go behind the DB and into the B gap on the right side of the oline, Phillips would have been there to pick him up. When you pause the tape at 5.18, Dobbins is in the spot between Bozeman and Skura, which would be a place for the linebacker to blitz as every oline should have been occupied, instead he goes up Behind Omenihu who has created a path.

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