buddy_z34 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 minute ago, roger murdock said: The stupidest argument ever. Murray isn't a top-20 player in the NBA. Hes probably somewhere like the 25th-35th best player. You are allowed to have teammates who have good games. Maybe if he had someone worse instead of Murray they get the 5 seed and Jokic feasts on the Rockets who dont have anyone who can do anything vs him. Its just a stupid argument. Its not like he got carried Jokic was amazing that first series. I never remember AD playing with anyone who ranked the 25th-35th best player in the NBA. Jokic has a better cast of teammates now than AD ever did in New Orleans with the Pelicans. Before Jokic got Murray, Porter Jr they were being bounced in round one or missing the playoffs just like AD and the Pelicans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Just now, buddy_z34 said: I never remember AD playing with anyone who ranked the 25th-35th best player in the NBA. Jokic has a better cast of teammates now than AD ever did in New Orleans with the Pelicans. Before Jokic got Murray, Porter Jr they were being bounced in round one or missing the playoffs just like AD and the Pelicans. Before these playoffs started I think most people would have view Jrue Holiday as a better player than Murray, and everyone would have viewed Boogie as better. And MPJ didnt play last season and is decent but nothing special. Hes a terrible defender and is basically playing a shooter role. Hes been a 20 mpg 15PER role player with terrible defense. Nuggets haven't lost R1 with Joker and are 3-1 in playoff series with him. Hes only been a full time starter for 3 years and they missed the playoffs the other year by 1 game. His 2nd season as a full time starter he got the Nuggets to more playoff games than AD in his entire Pels career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Jokic but close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMossIsBoss Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) It's close, I would expect results at this moment to be overwhelmingly in Jokic's favor after he has willed his team to 6 straight elimination game Ws. Ask this again in offseason. If AD wins finals MVP, or has an argument for it but Lebron gets it, I'm sure poll shifts. They're 2 best bigs in game (..edit: well Giannis is as much a big as AD lets be honest, so AD and Jokic are 2 and 3). I would argue Jokic is proving he is a big that can be built around, and it makes sense given his unique skillset. Doesn't need to rely on others for offense as you'd expect from most bigs. In fact he takes the ball up the court himself. Can the same be said for AD? His time in NO is kind of a push, were they able to build around him? ...No, but in this case it was much more indicative of a bad FO than the player in question. You look at his skillset though and it's fair to ask if he is just meant as a "robin" on a good team and not a focal point of a team. If you go with the question who do I want as my #1 vs who do I want to compliment another superstar, well answer becomes easy. Jokic for 1, AD for 2. Jokic in ways requires a team to be built around him to maximize his skillset. While AD has the skillset that can be plugged in anywhere and instantly be a huge asset. Edited September 16, 2020 by RandyMossIsBoss 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 2 hours ago, RandyMossIsBoss said: If you go with the question who do I want as my #1 vs who do I want to compliment another superstar, well answer becomes easy. Jokic for 1, AD for 2. Jokic in ways requires a team to be built around him to maximize his skillset. While AD has the skillset that can be plugged in anywhere and instantly be a huge asset. Very well said. I was coming in here to say something similar, but you put it into words better than I probably would have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Dillon Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 We are about to see in this series but I’ll say that AD had very little playoff or regular season success before this year and Jokic has been the best player on his team for years. Jokic is a 1 and Davis is a 2 but Davis is probably better at being a 2 than Jokic is at being a 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 9 hours ago, Mossburg said: Agreed. I think Jokic is one of the best players to build a TEAM around, he's like Chris Webber, he's super dynamic in team play and boosts others, but you need the right players. If you stuck him on an uncoordinated dumpster squad, he might not have that much of an impact. AD would be high impact player anywhere regardless of anything, at least in terms of his own production. Incorrect. Jokic makes everyone around him better. You don't "need the right players" ... he makes them the right players. We saw AD with his own team and solid NBA players for close to a decade. High impact stats. lol If you're starting a team. It's Jokic. And it's not even close. That to me says he's better. If you have the best player in the NBA on your team that is an all time great playmaker I guess you can go AD. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossburg Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 2 hours ago, champ11 said: Incorrect. Jokic makes everyone around him better. You don't "need the right players" ... he makes them the right players. We saw AD with his own team and solid NBA players for close to a decade. High impact stats. lol If you're starting a team. It's Jokic. And it's not even close. That to me says he's better. If you have the best player in the NBA on your team that is an all time great playmaker I guess you can go AD. He's played on one team for a handful of years. I'd rather see more before I put him in the Nash / Kidd camp. That's why I compared him to C-Webb earlier, C-Webb wasn't known as that guy until he landed on the right squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Mossburg said: He's played on one team for a handful of years. I'd rather see more before I put him in the Nash / Kidd camp. That's why I compared him to C-Webb earlier, C-Webb wasn't known as that guy until he landed on the right squad. "if you stuck him on an uncoordinated dumpster squad, he might not have much of an impact" .... you know how many games this dude has started next to Mason Plumlee and Torrey Craig? Jokic will make any team competitive. We saw rookie Jokic take the 2016-2017 Nuggets (name some players on that team!) a top 5 offense in the NBA. You're wrong on this one. Don't willfully show up to the party late fam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossburg Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, champ11 said: "if you stuck him on an uncoordinated dumpster squad, he might not have much of an impact" .... you know how many games this dude has started next to Mason Plumlee and Torrey Craig? Jokic will make any team competitive. We saw rookie Jokic take the 2016-2017 Nuggets (name some players on that team!) a top 5 offense in the NBA. You're wrong on this one. Don't willfully show up to the party late fam. Jokic wasn't a rookie in 2016-2017. How can you not know when your son was born? Also I don't think Malone's teams are uncoordinated dumpster squads. I was thinking more along the lines of Mike Brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mossburg said: Jokic wasn't a rookie in 2016-2017. How can you not know when your son was born? Also I don't think Malone's teams are uncoordinated dumpster squads. I was thinking more along the lines of Mike Brown. first time as a rotation player pretty much. and okay, sure haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossburg Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Just now, champ11 said: first time as a rotation player pretty much. and okay, sure haha I'll reword what I said. I don't mean he would be useless, but his best quality is he is an amplifier. But he's slow and easy to double. If your offense if run by a doorknob and you can't take advantage of his passing, he can't have the impact. His skillset does require other players to do things. This isn't really a knock, it's a team sport, it's actually one of the best qualities to have in a player. But it requires more from the team, which needs external forces (coach and players) to do their jobs. If his career is basically him carrying anything and everything to places of over-achievement, I'll glady add him to the Nash / Kidd tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 55 minutes ago, Mossburg said: I'll reword what I said. I don't mean he would be useless, but his best quality is he is an amplifier. But he's slow and easy to double. If your offense if run by a doorknob and you can't take advantage of his passing, he can't have the impact. His skillset does require other players to do things. This isn't really a knock, it's a team sport, it's actually one of the best qualities to have in a player. But it requires more from the team, which needs external forces (coach and players) to do their jobs. If his career is basically him carrying anything and everything to places of over-achievement, I'll glady add him to the Nash / Kidd tier. It requires NBA players that can knock down wide open shots lol. It took a couple threes from Gary Harris, 35 year old Paul Millsap, and Jerami Grant to blow a game 7 open against the Clippers. Those guys offensive studs?? You need to see him play next to a bunch of 13th men or something? I just have no idea what you are going on about here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_is_the_best Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 3 hours ago, champ11 said: It requires NBA players that can knock down wide open shots lol. It took a couple threes from Gary Harris, 35 year old Paul Millsap, and Jerami Grant to blow a game 7 open against the Clippers. Those guys offensive studs?? You need to see him play next to a bunch of 13th men or something? I just have no idea what you are going on about here. And 'Jokic is easy to double' What does that even mean lol. Jokic murdered the Clippers' double teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 AD's the better player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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