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VanS

What rookies do you think you have already missed on after Week 1?

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1 hour ago, MikeT14 said:

100%. Dude has lived up to the hype so far. What a terrible take "seeing a couple of plays on Redzone"

It was more than a couple of plays.  There were only 3 games on during the afternoon window last week so if you were watching RedZone, you pretty much got extended looks into each one of those games.

With that said, I believe it doesn't take long to see elite talent.  It should "jump off the screen" immediately.  For example, Myles Garrett (the guy Chase Young is compared to by many) always jumped off the screen to me everytime I watched him play.  He could have zero sacks but his burst, power, and dip were evident on nearly every snap.  Chase Young just never did that for me.  I would watch him for stretches wanting to see the guy everyone else sees and it never came to be.

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Lmfao I'm done with this man. He's basing his absolutely terrible Chase Young takes on HS testing numbers and a couple of plays he caught on RedZone. Just embarassing.

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52 minutes ago, rackcs said:

Lmfao I'm done with this man.

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52 minutes ago, rackcs said:

He's basing his absolutely terrible Chase Young takes on HS testing numbers and a couple of plays he caught on RedZone.

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52 minutes ago, rackcs said:

Just embarassing.

SardonicGenerousChrysalis-size_restricte

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5 hours ago, rackcs said:

Lmfao I'm done with this man. He's basing his absolutely terrible Chase Young takes on HS testing numbers and a couple of plays he caught on RedZone. Just embarassing.

Of course you're done now that I called you on your claim about me being "factually wrong" on Chase Young lacking burst and explosion.  I only posted the high school testing numbers in response to your claim that I was "factually wrong" about him.  The only "facts" we have right now say Chase Young isn't that athletic.  I don't know why you think I am obliged to think Chase Young has great athleticism.

With regard to my overall take on Chase Young, no I am not basing it on watching him on RedZone or his high school testing numbers.  My Chase Young take is based on watching him play consistently from his true freshmen season at Ohio State in 2017 when I heard of all the hype surrounding him then about being a future #1 overall pick.  If you go back and read my initial post in this thread regarding Chase Young it was in response to someone asking me if I was changing my mind on Young since I made it well known before the draft that I thought he would be a bust.  I said no and stated my reasoning which was based on the fact he didn't look any different from the player I saw in college who I was unimpressed with.  I didn't see it then with Chase Young and I don't see it now.

 

Edited by VanS

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2 hours ago, VanS said:

Of course you're done now that I called you on your claim about me being "factually wrong" on Chase Young lacking burst and explosion.  I only posted the high school testing numbers in response to your claim that I was "factually wrong" about him.  The only "facts" we have right now say Chase Young isn't that athletic.  I don't know why you think I am obliged to think Chase Young has great athleticism.

With regard to my overall take on Chase Young, no I am not basing it on watching him on RedZone or his high school testing numbers.  My Chase Young take is based on watching him play consistently from his true freshmen season at Ohio State in 2017 when I heard of all the hype surrounding him then about being a future #1 overall pick.  If you go back and read my initial post in this thread regarding Chase Young it was in response to someone asking me if I was changing my mind on Young since I made it well known before the draft that I thought he would be a bust.  I said no and stated my reasoning which was based on the fact he didn't look any different from the player I saw in college who I was unimpressed with.  I didn't see it then with Chase Young and I don't see it now.

I feel like just watching how strong and fluid he is on tape in college and now the NFL is better evidence than HS testing numbers but you do you bud

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5 hours ago, rackcs said:

I feel like just watching how strong and fluid he is on tape in college and now the NFL is better evidence than HS testing numbers but you do you bud

We can agree to disagree.  Almost every NFL evaluator agrees with you.  However, that doesn't make them or you right.  We have seen players drafted that high with similar hype become total busts in the NFL.  I think groupthink a lot of times is to blame for this.  People most of the time see what they want to see.  If the media keeps telling you how great a player is, then you're more than likely going to see great attributes.  I try my best to not let what others think influence me but even I second guessed myself on Chase Young by watching a lot of him at Ohio State just to make sure there wasn't something I was missing.

If Chase Young becomes a star I will be wrong.  But you and everyone who thinks he's destined for stardom can't act like you were still right about him if his career ends up being like Leonard Williams. 

Edited by VanS

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41 minutes ago, VanS said:

We can agree to disagree.  Almost every NFL evaluator agrees with you.  However, that doesn't make them or you right.  We have seen players drafted that high with similar hype become total busts in the NFL.  I think groupthink a lot of times is to blame for this.  People most of the time see what they want to see.  If the media keeps telling you how great a player is, then you're more than likely going to see great attributes.  I try my best to not let what others think influence me but even I second guessed myself on Chase Young by watching a lot of him at Ohio State just to make sure there wasn't something I was missing.

If Chase Young becomes a star I will be wrong.  But you and everyone who thinks he's destined for stardom can't act like you were still right about him if his career ends up being like Leonard Williams. 

What do you would define a successful career for Chase Young to the point where even you would have to admit you were wrong?

5 sacks a year?  7?  10?  12?  What about 50 career sacks?

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Haven't paid a ton of attention to other team's pickups, but a few guys I've noticed:

1. Becton-OT.... I had him highly rated, but as a boom/bust potential guy, and he's been booming way better than I'd have hoped for in year 1.

2. Claypool-WR.... I wanted him on my Bears, and he's again a boom/bust guy that I think has shown way more "boom" than I was expecting early on... I imagine he's going to see his workload substantially increase by the end of the season.

3. Herbert-QB.... limited sample size, but I had him pegged as a bust. He played well in his first game, kudos to him.

 

Now two of my Bears guys I will say I was totally wrong on:

1. Jaylon Johnson-CB...... This kid is currently in the running for D-ROY and has been playing fairly outstanding ball so far, at a position that imo is one of the hardest to translate to the NFL speed.. Going to be super interesting seeing him match up with Ridley or Julio this weekend (assuming Julio plays). Expectation wise, I was worried about him coming off shoulder surgery, and just making the jump to the NFL level...he comes in on day 1 and is basically playing on par with Kyle Fuller. Just amazing.

2. Darnelll Mooney-WR..... I saw an undersized  speed WR who basically wasted our mid-late round draft pick and would likely be out of the league before his rookie deal was even done.... So the bar was set pretty low expectation wise, but he's managed to carve out some modest production already as a role player so far.... And that role will be dramatically expanding week to week. He's already earned an ever increasing share of the reps each week, enough to make him our #2 WR behind robinson in snaps. He's running better routes than most of our veterans, is constantly getting himself open, is the team's only major speed threat, got veteran Tedd Ginn jr. turned from a starter into a healthy scratch last week, and is somewhat hilariously (and despite being like 170 lbs) probably our best blocking WR right now (and that isn't even kidding, there's a play last week where he and a fullback where both blocking up the middle for the RB, and the fullback failed hard, while Mooney cleared his man dude out of the lane)..... The kid is putting 110% effort into just every. single. snap. and it's been noticed by both fans and coaches.  Johnson is in the running for D-ROY, and Mooney actually looks like he might be an even bigger draft steal right now.

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9 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

What do you would define a successful career for Chase Young to the point where even you would have to admit you were wrong?

5 sacks a year?  7?  10?  12?  What about 50 career sacks?

Perennial Pro-Bowler.  10+ sacks regularly.  At least a couple of All-Pro selections.

In essence he needs to live up to the hype he had coming into the draft as a generational edge rusher.  A career like the one Myles Garrett looks to have would make me wrong.  Him going the way of Leonard Williams would prove me right.  A career like Jadeveon Clowney would be a sort of middle ground where he is neither an outright bust nor is he a generational player.  In that sense he wouldn't be worth the #2 overall pick but he would have a solid career befitting of a mid-1st round pick. 

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12 hours ago, VanS said:

Perennial Pro-Bowler.  10+ sacks regularly.  At least a couple of All-Pro selections.

In essence he needs to live up to the hype he had coming into the draft as a generational edge rusher.  A career like the one Myles Garrett looks to have would make me wrong.  Him going the way of Leonard Williams would prove me right.  A career like Jadeveon Clowney would be a sort of middle ground where he is neither an outright bust nor is he a generational player.  In that sense he wouldn't be worth the #2 overall pick but he would have a solid career befitting of a mid-1st round pick. 

So I’m this entire argument are you taking how a guy looks on tape over the production he puts on the field? There are plenty of players who don’t look “good” on tape but produce, which is much more important.

The thing about opinions is that they are like buttholes, everyone has one. But production doesn’t lie.

I have a strong feeling you weren’t very high on JJ Watt either.

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3 hours ago, badgers0821 said:

I have a strong feeling you weren’t very high on JJ Watt either.

I wasn't really following the draft closely in 2011 so I didn't even know who JJ Watt was before he started dominating in 2012 and making a name for himself.  With that said, you're probably right.  Looking at JJ Watt's college tape now, I probably would have said he would be a bust.  I've never claimed to be omniscient or perfect.  There are times I have missed badly on players.  However, I believe my method of evaluating players is right more times than not.  If it wasn't, then I would change how I do things.

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For the Bills: I was wrong, it seems, about Gabriel Davis. I mean, I thought we got decent enough value, getting him in the 4th round to be maybe our 4th or 5th WR, filling out our depth at the position, BUT.... -he's more than that. Future starter, future highly productive player. And we all get to see him now, as a rookie. Enjoy.

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I was pissed about the Damon Arnette pick but he has surprised me so far this season. 

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I thought Isaiah Simmons would be an instance day one impact player but that’s far from being the case.

Certainly not giving up on him yet, but he’s not off to a promising start.

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17 minutes ago, TitanSlim said:

I thought Isaiah Simmons would be an instance day one impact player but that’s far from being the case.

Certainly not giving up on him yet, but he’s not off to a promising start.

His role doesn't fit him I don't think. Best chance would've been in a KJ Wright or Lavonte David role

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