GDT: Denver Broncos (0-1) at Pittsburgh Steelers (1-0)

[Scoundrel]

Let’s remember to be nice to each other. Even in our darkest hour. 

[lomaxgrUK]

8 hours ago, DiehardBronxFan said:

Saying Lock has no feel for pressure is one of the craziest things I’ve ever heard.  One of his greatest strengths.  

That's your opinion, but I differ.

I think he's very athletic which can get him on the edge, but I don't think he has a precise feel for pressure, i.e knowing exactly where he can slide so that he can extend a play within the pocket.

Running sideways takes away half of the field. I highlighted actually examples of this in the Titans game, so it's not as if I am making this up.

 

[DiehardBronxFan]

6 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Do I detect just a bit of sarcasm?

Perhaps a touch...😉

[DiehardBronxFan]

1 hour ago, lomaxgrUK said:

That's your opinion, but I differ.

I think he's very athletic which can get him on the edge, but I don't think he has a precise feel for pressure, i.e knowing exactly where he can slide so that he can extend a play within the pocket.

Running sideways takes away half of the field. I highlighted actually examples of this in the Titans game, so it's not as if I am making this up.

 

But those are 2 very different things.  The QB’s with “no feel for pressure” don’t see/feel it coming, hold on to the ball to long or fail to move, and get sacked.  What you are saying now is, “sure, he feels the pressure and is athletic enough to avoid it, but he doesn’t ‘precisely’ move to the best position to make a play.”.  
 

why is that important? From my experience, you simply can’t teach the former.  If a QB doesn’t have an instinctive feel for pressure coming in to the league ( that sense, almost like eyes in the back of their head), they’ll never get it.  But they can (and Drew will) learn what to do WHEN he feels the pressure.  That is teachable.  

[lomaxgrUK]

1 hour ago, DiehardBronxFan said:

But those are 2 very different things.  The QB’s with “no feel for pressure” don’t see/feel it coming, hold on to the ball to long or fail to move, and get sacked.  What you are saying now is, “sure, he feels the pressure and is athletic enough to avoid it, but he doesn’t ‘precisely’ move to the best position to make a play.”.  
 

why is that important? From my experience, you simply can’t teach the former.  If a QB doesn’t have an instinctive feel for pressure coming in to the league ( that sense, almost like eyes in the back of their head), they’ll never get it.  But they can (and Drew will) learn what to do WHEN he feels the pressure.  That is teachable.  

Ok, this makes sense. Poor wording on my behalf, then.

[broncos67]

Obviously a frustrating loss, made worse by the number of injuries that keep popping up. Lock getting hurt is a huge blow, same with Sutton. We've been fairly lucky the last few years with respect to injuries, so I guess this is just the pendulum swinging the other way. It's definitely a bummer.

Some positives I saw:

• This team has heart, I can't deny that. I think there are things Fangio needs to work on, specifically around clock management, but I won't deny this team comes out and fights every play. We had no business being in that game, but I saw a lot of guys giving max effort.
• Thought Hamler looked good, and will definitely be a weapon when he can get the ball in his hands.
• Gordon ran well at times, was nice to see that, even if we don't use him on short yardage runs for some reason.
• Defense played well, especially the run defense, sans that one long Conner play at the end of the game.
• Simmons looked significantly better than he did last week which is what you'd expect to see.

Some negatives:

• Entirely too many injuries as usual this season.
• I am scratching my head as to why we aren't running Gordon on short yardage plays.
• Ojemudia got burned quite a bit.
• Elijah Wilkinson is a turnstile and an absolute dumpster fire. Time to put in Dotson, it can't be any worse than the current trainwreck.
• The overall OL pass protection was complete garbage.
• Absolutely zero pass rush generated by any DE/OLB.

The Broncos are generally well prepared, and will likely be in a lot of close games as they were last year, but it's a big issue if they can't figure out how to win those games late. Having Lock out for an extended period of time is a huge negative, and given our schedule, not expecting many wins. We may even struggle to beat the Jets on a short week which is sad.

If Lock is out closer to 6 weeks, I am expecting Denver may win 1 game in that time. Though I think we have talent, we are just too injured and it's going to catch up to us. I am firmly on Trevor Lawrence watch at this point. I know it's a whopping two games in, but the schedule isn't easy and the injuries are still lingering. Denver will not be the worst team in football, but I think we are firmly tracking towards a Top 5-10 pick, if for no other reason than the injuries early on should add to the L column, even if we win a few games when Lock returns.

[Broncofan]

 

Re: Lock's ability to feel pressure, on this play Watt literally beats Wilkinson to the spot - most QB's take a sack here.    Lock's ability to sense pressure actually is a curse here - but only because he stumbles as he avoids a surefire sack by Watt.    To say it's an unfortunate injury is an understatement - Lock did an amazing job to avoid Watt, and then because he stumbled, he had no chance to get rid of the ball, or to avoid the hit while vulnerable.

If it's a labrum tear, people will hear the words "career-threatening" - and in the case of baseball, that's very true.    Andrew Luck, Cam Newton & Drew Brees are the famous examples for QB's.  Brees obviously has been OK health-wise, and Cam's back - but I think it's fair to say that Cam's arm is still being questioned if it's the same as before, and it was a long road back from the shoulder surgery.    And we know the toll Luck took.    But here's the kicker - Brees' recovery was successful with a more extensive injury, and sooner than Cam / Luck's recovery - because it was treated early - and not caught late, where more wear & tear developed (Cam & Luck).    Plus there is a big difference between a repair and full reconstruction (Brees & Luck).  Hopefully it's not a labrum tear, as that's a season-ender.   But it won't be the same kind of injury as Cam/Luck experienced, given the delay in diagnosis, either, and repair vs. reconstruction.

All we can do is sit and wait for the MRI...and hope for the best, but be ready for the worst-case news.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Broncofan

[germ-x]

9 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

No one argued his credentials as a coordinator. Same with Wade Phillips. Same with Norv Turner. 

It was a terrible hire when it was made, and  some of us said as much, and it’s a terrible hire still. 

But Klis wasn’t wrong.  Denver had no business being in the game today and still were and a HUGE reason for that is what Denver does defensively. 

[French Fan]

1 hour ago, germ-x said:

But Klis wasn’t wrong.  Denver had no business being in the game today and still were and a HUGE reason for that is what Denver does defensively. 

I disagree. HUGE reason is Pittsburgh play not really good. They save the day with 84 yds TD Pass and final play 59 yds run.

0 pressure from the outside by Denver. Where is Chubb ? ILB are very suspect (AJ et Jewell) corners are young yes but.....how it is possible to miss thi INT by Ojemudia ? couples plays later....TD Steelers. Kareem Jackson take a step back and Simmons lose some millions in his future contract after week 1 performance and 1 st half yesterday. I am not sure that Denver will want to sign him at his price if he doesn't improve.

Jeudy need to keep his eyes on the ball...too many drops after 2 weeks , why not use TE more in the passing games ? 

This start is depressing  , they need to learn quickly or the season will be over after week 5

[Broncofan]

7 minutes ago, French Fan said:

Where is Chubb ?

I'll say it again - post-ACL full explosion does not return for 18 months.  Pro athletes often return to play at the 9-10 month mark, but they don't get all of their pre-injury suddenness and explosion until 18 months.   For a guy like Chubb where he's more technique/instincts & motor, and did not possess quick-twitch suddenness / change of direction ability, this is going to be an issue.   The doubts on him being worth the #5 pick were about whether he could be a Batman, or if he was a glue guy (nothing against that in a vacuum, just tough as the 1.5 pick).   An ACL injury is a killer to that kind of skill set, not that it's not recoverable, but it becomes a 2-season injury in most cases.  

Maybe Chubb shows he can be the alpha guy - but it's more likely next year, if at all.  It's worrisome when explosion/quicks were his biggest Q mark, though, to be post-ACL.  If you're an athletic freak show (like AP 2011-12), then maybe it doesn't matter, but the rule with most pro athletes is not being close to peak in year 1 post-ACL.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

 

The hits just keep on coming.   Given how much improved TAM's OL is (and with Fournette, they have a 1-2 hammer combo to wear D's out with Ronald Jones), next week is shaping up to be a tall task.

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

Maybe Chubb shows he can be the alpha guy - but it's more likely next year, if at all.  It's worrisome when explosion/quicks were his biggest Q mark, though, to be post-ACL.  If you're an athletic freak show (like AP 2011-12), then maybe it doesn't matter, but the rule with most pro athletes is not being close to peak in year 1 post-ACL.

I just dont think Chubb was explosive enough to be more than a effort sack guy before the injury, much less after. I never liked that pick and personally think he should bulk a bit and move to 34DE. He is a great kid, but his pop just isnt there as an outside LB in a 34. He managed good rookie year stats but alot of those sacks were effort or coverage based and Von demanding doubles opened alot up for him. We are seeing now that he just isnt the guy. No team is gameplanning to stop Chubb, he isnt a legit outside rushing threat and for a top-5 pick thats just unacceptable IMO. 

[Broncofan]

3 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I just dont think Chubb was explosive enough to be more than a effort sack guy before the injury, much less after. I never liked that pick and personally think he should bulk a bit and move to 34DE. He is a great kid, but his pop just isnt there as an outside LB in a 34. He managed good rookie year stats but alot of those sacks were effort or coverage based and Von demanding doubles opened alot up for him. We are seeing now that he just isnt the guy. No team is gameplanning to stop Chubb, he isnt a legit outside rushing threat and for a top-5 pick thats just unacceptable IMO. 

Well you know I was in the same camp, but I'm trying to be generous to Chubb, given we're pot committed here.   He honestly profiled like a Clowney-type - potential run game disruptor, glue guy - but not a pass rush force on his own.   Again, his rookie year - 7 of his 12 sacks either were 3+ secs, or he was unblocked - those are effort/motor plays, not elite quick-twitch win plays.  That's just not a guy you draft as 1.5.   But that horse left the barn years ago sooooo......

But yeah, expecting him to be good as our pass rush alpha this year when Von went down was very much a pipe dream IMO.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Broncofan

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

But yeah, expecting him to be good as our pass rush alpha this year when Von went down was very much a pipe dream IMO.

Not jus that, but Attachou has looked better and more explosive. Thats really disconcerting. 

[Broncofan]

1 minute ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Not jus that, but Attachou has looked better and more explosive. Thats really disconcerting. 

The one blessing - at worst, Elway just picks up the 5th year option for Chubb (which is only guaranteed for injury), or he declines it.  Either way, he likely doesn't commit a franchise-killer contract to Chubb, projecting him to be Von's successor.