Week 5 GDT: 49ers vs Colts, aka: our best shot to win a game?

[y2lamanaki]

4 hours ago, 48 1/2ers said:

Tartt has looked good but his style is a bit reckless, dudes gonna get injured constantly. Thats a problem Reid has also

He's been active in 34 of 36 possible games, and would have been active for 35 if he wasn't shut down for the final game of his rookie season with a minor injury and no need to risk it. I don't think he has any such problem. 

[y2lamanaki]

8 hours ago, Forge said:

 

You know what is an amusing PFF grade? CJ Beathard has a 60.1 overall grade for his one play last game where he handed off the ball. That is a very specific one snap of zero consequence grade. 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, y2lamanaki said:

You know what is an amusing PFF grade? CJ Beathard has a 60.1 overall grade for his one play last game where he handed off the ball. That is a very specific one snap of zero consequence grade. 

At least he turned the right way for the handoff, so I would have given him a positive grade. I'm not going to name names or anything but not all of our quarterbacks can manage that with a high degree of success

[48 1/2ers]

1 hour ago, y2lamanaki said:

He's been active in 34 of 36 possible games, and would have been active for 35 if he wasn't shut down for the final game of his rookie season with a minor injury and no need to risk it. I don't think he has any such problem. 

He's started at safety in a total of 18 games, so half of those games you mentioned are irrelevant for me. Regardless he's 25 entering his 3rd season so its still early to tell. but he's already had neck issues this season and had to leave games and concussion and rib injuries- just this season. I'm going off of his style of play that i'm seeing, meaning the eye test is telling me he's liable to get hurt the way he plays. 

[y2lamanaki]

9 minutes ago, 48 1/2ers said:

He's started at safety in a total of 18 games, so half of those games you mentioned are irrelevant for me. Regardless he's 25 entering his 3rd season so its still early to tell. but he's already had neck issues this season and had to leave games and concussion and rib injuries- just this season. I'm going off of his style of play that i'm seeing, meaning the eye test is telling me he's liable to get hurt the way he plays. 

2

The fact that you think starts are all that matters means this discussion won't go anywhere. He was one of the top 11 defensive players in terms of snap count in each of his first two seasons. He was the first defensive back off the bench in both of his first two seasons, and of course added all of the Special Teams snaps on top of it. I suppose since Aldon started zero games in his rookie year, those snaps were irrelevant, too? No. He still played a huge role, and had plenty of chances to get injured, and he has still been there consistently. As for the other "injuries" - every player gets banged up. He's still played the 4th most snaps of any player on the team and 94% of all defensive snaps this season. 

I'm just not buying your eye test. 

[48 1/2ers]

If the discussion isnt going anywhere then why not just leave it at I think his style is too reckless and you think its not? Lol I've known the game long enough to have my own ideas of reckless play style. 

The game is different now especially with head injuries, and my eye test which isn't for sale tells me that Tartt's style thus far is worrisome. Thats it, bring out all the numbers you want but they mean nothing when I see a guy play with a certain style like Tartts shown in this small sample. 

[Forge]

Quote

According to Pro Football Focus, opposing quarterbacks have a 108.6 passer rating when targeting the 49ers’ top cornerback, Rashard Robinson. The team’s other starter, Dontae Johnson, is allowing a 119.1 passer rating.

At this point, can Witherspoon really do much worse? 

[Forge]

Actually found this game preview from Bleacher report pretty entertaining, so figured I would share. I actually laughed a bit out loud when reading the quarterback update. 

 

Quote

 

49ers at a Glance

Why they are 0-4: Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch are making the most of their redshirt year.

Quarterback update: Kirk Cousins played well against a great Chiefs defense, nearly sparking a win for the Redsk…oh, you mean a current49ers quarterback update? Ha ha ha, it's Brian Hoyer, folks.

Least Valuable Player: Cornerback Rashard Robinson has three pass interference penalties and two contact fouls in the last two weeks. And those are his highlights.

Coaching Blunder of the Year: Shanahan threw a Richard Sherman/Antonio Brown-level tantrum when the officials could not hear him call timeout on fourth down in the season opener. Snit-fits aside, Shanahan's Niners are still one of the league's most likely teams to line up in an illegal formation or jump offsides, according to stats provided by the NFL.

Youngsters who are actually developing: The whole defensive line looks great, as does safety Jaquiski Tartt. Snark aside, Shanny and Lynch are getting stuff done during this rebuilding year. On defense at least.

Old-timer trapped in a youth movement: When a Carson Palmer not-so-fastball bounces off NaVorro Bowman's chest, you can almost feel yourself aging.

 

 

[Fureys49ers]

6 minutes ago, Forge said:

At this point, can Witherspoon really do much worse? 

I'm hoping here in the near future we see him soon. Those QBRs are ridiculous haha and what's most disturbing is Robinson seems to be getting worse as the season goes along and Johnson has thoroughly proved why even in the last two years with little talent in front of him he still rarely saw the field. A higher end vet and rookie might be in order this offseason.

[y2lamanaki]

7 hours ago, 48 1/2ers said:

If the discussion isnt going anywhere then why not just leave it at I think his style is too reckless and you think its not? Lol I've known the game long enough to have my own ideas of reckless play style. 

The game is different now especially with head injuries, and my eye test which isn't for sale tells me that Tartt's style thus far is worrisome. Thats it, bring out all the numbers you want but they mean nothing when I see a guy play with a certain style like Tartts shown in this small sample. 

All I'm saying is you might need to get your eyes checked. He's played over 2000 snaps. That's not a small sample. That's now a pretty large sample. It's the largest sample on the team, as the only other 49er to have accrued more than 2000 snaps since Tartt has come into the league is Tramaine Brock, which also includes Antoine Bethea if you include his snaps with the Cardinals and Ahmad Brooks with the Packers from this year. So your eyes aren't matching what has actually happened. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

9 hours ago, Forge said:

At this point, can Witherspoon really do much worse? 

Witherspoon will eventually get his shot this year.

As for Robinson, you have to stick with him. He's barely 22 years old and has little playing experience. These last two years are basically his junior and senior seasons in college. I wasn't as down with him for his performance vs AZ as others. Robinson still makes a lot of mistakes and his penalties are frustrating, but he made some nice plays last week. He's just not consistent enough at the moment. And he has stones for hands, and unlike Roberto Duran, that's not a good thing in football LOL. 

What he doesn't do at the LOS is get a good jam. Actually, a lot of times he doesn't get any jam which makes little sense for a guy with his frame. He's not the quickest guy so it is important he wins early. What he needs to do is watch some Asomugha film from his Raiders days. If he could implement something like that in his game, then we will have something.

[J-ALL-DAY]

Tartt is reckless no doubt. But he's reckless to the point that it hurts him in missing tackles, not so much in actually getting hurt. There's a distinct difference there. Maybe that's where the confusion is. Now, it is possible his lack of technique that he displays at times could end up getting him injured. 

[48 1/2ers]

3 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

All I'm saying is you might need to get your eyes checked. He's played over 2000 snaps. That's not a small sample. That's now a pretty large sample. It's the largest sample on the team, as the only other 49er to have accrued more than 2000 snaps since Tartt has come into the league is Tramaine Brock, which also includes Antoine Bethea if you include his snaps with the Cardinals and Ahmad Brooks with the Packers from this year. So your eyes aren't matching what has actually happened. 

63% of defensive snaps in 2015, 53% defensive snaps in 2016. Thats a small sample in my book, STs dont apply because I'm talking about his style of play at safety. This year where he's being asked to play more we are already seeing neck, rib, and head injuries through 4 games he's been able to power through it but long term its something to keep an eye on. I like Tartt 10 times more than Reid so i'm not some hater with a biased motive i'm just saying he needs to sharpen up his technique like @J-ALL-DAY said otherwise I expect more injuries. Other than that he's dope

[y2lamanaki]

2 hours ago, 48 1/2ers said:

63% of defensive snaps in 2015, 53% defensive snaps in 2016. Thats a small sample in my book, STs dont apply because I'm talking about his style of play at safety. This year where he's being asked to play more we are already seeing neck, rib, and head injuries through 4 games he's been able to power through it but long term its something to keep an eye on. I like Tartt 10 times more than Reid so i'm not some hater with a biased motive i'm just saying he needs to sharpen up his technique like @J-ALL-DAY said otherwise I expect more injuries. Other than that he's dope

Each of those percentages you quoted is still enough to make him one of the top 11 players on defense only in each of those years, and the top player on the team in defensive snaps behind Brock since he came into the league. If that's too small a sample size, then nobody currently on the team has met the sample size you are looking for. All of the other players here have played fewer snaps.

This seems to me to be the equivalent of looking at our offensive line and saying "Trent Brown can learn to pass block better." It might be technically true on some level, but seems like an odd choice for criticism given that he's the top pass blocker on the team. Similarly, it seems odd to me to say about the guy who has played the most defensive snaps over 2.25 seasons: "That guy is going to be injured constantly."

[48 1/2ers]

That Trent Brown comparison is a completely different situation, she's like apples to oranges....

Trent Brown having a missed block doesnt put him at risk of missing the next block attempt. Tartt getting injured (especially head/neck) puts him at greater risk of being injured again unless he adjusts his technique. Thats the entire point I'm making. You think his technique is flawless and you dont expect injury because he's played a certain number of snaps through his rookie and sophomore season, thats fine I hope you're correct. Forgive my hyperbole that he'll be injured constantly, but being injured once or twice is enough to waste all the potential he has. My eye test is all I need to go off of. 

Back to the game Doyle has been ruled out, TY had a good game last week so they might be more vertical than the games where Doyle was a main target. I'm hoping for lots of int opportunities for our DB's.