broncos67 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 17 hours ago, grizmo78 said: So Paton served as the right hand man for Rick Spielman who is known for trading down in the draft. If Paton follows suit and ends up trading down to say Pick 15-20 or so. Who would your early targets be right now? I would advocate for Kwity Paye (as athletic as they come. Reminds me of Danielle Hunter, where he didn't have as much production coming out), Christian Barmore (Still so young and has shown ability to take over a game), Jaycee Horn (Aqib Talib esque that can match up with TEs if needed?), and Zaven Collins (Better AJ). It's almost a shame we have invested so much into the O-Line already as this draft is deep with O line talent and mid 20s seems to be a great spot for them. Jaycee Horn or Zaven Collins would be high atop my list. I am intrigued by Azeez Ojulari, but I do think he'll be gone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcpbawler Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 20 hours ago, grizmo78 said: So Paton served as the right hand man for Rick Spielman who is known for trading down in the draft. If Paton follows suit and ends up trading down to say Pick 15-20 or so. Who would your early targets be right now? I would advocate for Kwity Paye (as athletic as they come. Reminds me of Danielle Hunter, where he didn't have as much production coming out), Christian Barmore (Still so young and has shown ability to take over a game), Jaycee Horn (Aqib Talib esque that can match up with TEs if needed?), and Zaven Collins (Better AJ). It's almost a shame we have invested so much into the O-Line already as this draft is deep with O line talent and mid 20s seems to be a great spot for them. If the top two corners are gone I'd lean Paye as well. Barmore is solid too but maybe a little soon imo, and I think I'd prefer Nixon based on potential. I'd also lean JOK over Collins who I'm personally offended by the AJ comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcpbawler Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 16 hours ago, thebestever6 said: Is Najee Harris similar to Derrick Henry at all? Not particularly. Najee is already great both as a pass blocker/pass catcher. May seem strange to say now but Najee also is way more physical of a runner as well. I like prospect Najee more than prospect Henry, but I'm not sure that Najee will ever be as valuable as King Henry has been the last two years, if that makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 9 hours ago, rcpbawler said: Not particularly. Najee is already great both as a pass blocker/pass catcher. May seem strange to say now but Najee also is way more physical of a runner as well. I like prospect Najee more than prospect Henry, but I'm not sure that Najee will ever be as valuable as King Henry has been the last two years, if that makes sense. Good to know I just feel Paton values rb if the Dalvin Cook selection tells us anything. So I wanted to know more about him. I know his size is very impressive. Way more physical of a runner that's hard to picture lol. I'm kinda shocked he isn't being mocked higher tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosfan_101 Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 Tim Jenkins, QB guru, has Zach Wilson as QB1. Matt Miller has reported that at least one team has their board ranked the same way. While I’m not sure I’d go quite that far yet, I feel much better about putting Wilson in Lawrence’s tier a couple months ago. He’s a star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said: Tim Jenkins, QB guru, has Zach Wilson as QB1. Matt Miller has reported that at least one team has their board ranked the same way. While I’m not sure I’d go quite that far yet, I feel much better about putting Wilson in Lawrence’s tier a couple months ago. He’s a star. I have no problem if ppl want to put Zach Wilson as 1.2 for NYJ (or whoever). But Wilson broke out age 21, in his junior year, against iffier competition. And he did start the first 2 years, so he wasn't blocked. Lawrence became a star in his freshman year, and faced elite competition then (not necessarily the ACC, but at very least in the playoffs). He's been at that star level for 3 years. Putting Wilson in Lawrence's tier is just click-bait, recency-bias effect. I do think Wilson's skill profile projects well for the NFL. I won't bag on an org for picking Wilson over Fields, given their strengths/weaknesses profile (Field's ceiling is sky high, but his weaknesses are more easily exposed at the NFL level), but there's only 1 Lawrence. It's not a sexy take, but the age-of-breakout, longer period of excellence and elite competition faced overwhelmingly point this way. Edited February 17, 2021 by Broncofan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosfan_101 Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Broncofan said: I have no problem if ppl want to put Zach Wilson as 1.2 for NYJ (or whoever). But Wilson broke out age 21, in his junior year, against iffier competition. And he did start the first 2 years, so he wasn't blocked. Lawrence became a star in his freshman year, and faced elite competition then (not necessarily the ACC, but at very least in the playoffs). He's been at that star level for 3 years. Putting Wilson in Lawrence's tier is just click-bait, recency-bias effect. I do think Wilson's skill profile projects well for the NFL. I won't bag on an org for picking Wilson over Fields, given their strengths/weaknesses profile (Field's ceiling is sky high, but his weaknesses are more easily exposed at the NFL level), but there's only 1 Lawrence. It's not a sexy take, but the age-of-breakout, longer period of excellence and elite competition faced overwhelmingly point this way. I mean, let’s not forget the large discrepancy in Lawrence’s supporting cast and coaching staff. He’s faced better competition, but he’s also played in an NFL incubator, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyj20 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I'm a Wilson fan, I've seen him live several times but I'm not sure if he is Aaron Rogers or Drew Lock. I wish BYU played a decent schedule last year and we would know a lot more, the problem is that BYU is a borderline P5 program and they were playing borderline G5 teams and his offensive line was completely dominant. That said I wont be sad if he ends up in Denver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-mac Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I really like Wilson, really like him. If it wasn’t for Trevor Lawrence I’d actually have him graded as the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck in 2012 (slightly ahead of Darnold, Mayfield and Burrow. I’ll admit I whiffed on Deshaun and Mahomes) But Lawrence is on a different planet. If the Jaguars take Wilson then Paton needs to be on the phone trying to trade up to 2 for Lawrence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 I still like Fields a good deal more than Wilson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, BroncoBruin said: I still like Fields a good deal more than Wilson. Fields' ceiling IMO is much higher, because he offers the dual NFL-level running threat and big play throwing ability. The 2 drawbacks are that his windup/delivery are a hair longer than I like to see, and after 2 years (well more like 1.5), he hasn't made great advances in read progression. But Fields also has that Dak-type of elusiveness and ability to extend the play in and outside the pocket, and he's got the raw arm talent to be a big-throw maker. The 2 weaknesses are ones that NFL-level D's can really exploit mercilessly. But unlike a Daniel Jones, as a contrast - Fields' tools are that much better as a thrower (and Jones is actually a good athlete <his arm raw skills and lack of pocket awareness are what still limit him significantly>, but Fields on-field work says he's better athletically, too). It's why he's such a tantalizing prospect, albeit one that raises concerns. Fields' ceiling is definitely elite-level, but he doesn't come with the safe floor you'd like to see in a top 3 pick. Then again, Wilson's level of competition and late-onset of success raise Q's - but the arm skills translate better (although I would like to see how his quicks translate - I'd think he's a better athlete than Baker Mayfield, as an example, and he has to be to succeed in the NFL - that athletic ability matters to give him the means to avoid pressure and extend plays). Before the season started though, Fields was the clear #2 guy. This is going to be a fascinating draft to see if Wilson or Fields go as the #2 QB. Edited February 18, 2021 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcpbawler Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 5 hours ago, Broncofan said: Fields' ceiling IMO is much higher, because he offers the dual NFL-level running threat and big play throwing ability. The 2 drawbacks are that his windup/delivery are a hair longer than I like to see, and after 2 years (well more like 1.5), he hasn't made great advances in read progression. But Fields also has that Dak-type of elusiveness and ability to extend the play in and outside the pocket, and he's got the raw arm talent to be a big-throw maker. The 2 weaknesses are ones that NFL-level D's can really exploit mercilessly. But unlike a Daniel Jones, as a contrast - Fields' tools are that much better as a thrower (and Jones is actually a good athlete <his arm raw skills and lack of pocket awareness are what still limit him significantly>, but Fields on-field work says he's better athletically, too). It's why he's such a tantalizing prospect, albeit one that raises concerns. Fields' ceiling is definitely elite-level, but he doesn't come with the safe floor you'd like to see in a top 3 pick. Then again, Wilson's level of competition and late-onset of success raise Q's - but the arm skills translate better (although I would like to see how his quicks translate - I'd think he's a better athlete than Baker Mayfield, as an example, and he has to be to succeed in the NFL - that athletic ability matters to give him the means to avoid pressure and extend plays). Before the season started though, Fields was the clear #2 guy. This is going to be a fascinating draft to see if Wilson or Fields go as the #2 QB. I think this is all very well put, the only thing I'd like to mention is that, while, yeah, he really broke out this year, he showed a lot as a true freshman as well. Smaller sample size but he had some really good games as a 19 y/o starting quarterback. He was dealing with injuries that really hampered his ability to throw as a sophomore so I take that season with a grain of salt. I had Fields and Wilson virtually neck and neck but the more I watch, the more I gravitate towards Wilson. Watching them both back to back really shows the contrast in their delivery. Wilson has that super aesthetically pleasing, shortstop-esque delivery while Fields seems to take forever in comparison. Clearly BYU was more talented than pmuch every team they played, but Wilson still made quite a few highlight worthy throws. His WR were slower, big bodied guys who generally didn't get a lot of seperation so he had to be more accurate than not. It's not like RG3 who constantly had guys running deep with 4+ yards from the nearest defender. I dunno if it's been mentioned, but I think PFF had Wilson with the most "tight window" throws this season. While Fields played the more talented defenses far and away, he also had one of the best OL and WR corp in the country as well. All this to say, I really like both of them but I think you'll have to pair Fields with a creative OC that is willing to install new concepts and get more creative to succeed. Probably matters not unless we trade up anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 The way I see our QB situation as is is that Paton wouldn't mind an upgrade but he's not going to send good assets for a marginal upgrade ala Wentz. Gotta figure the draft is no different. The Jets I hear are content with running it back with Darnold and trading down from that number two spot so I'm curious if Paton bites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, thebestever6 said: The Jets I hear are content with running it back with Darnold and trading down from that number two spot so I'm curious if Paton bites. What would it cost - 1.9 2.40 and next years first round and second round ? Edited February 18, 2021 by jolly red giant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 9 minutes ago, jolly red giant said: What would it cost - 1.9 2.40 and next years first round and second round ? Book prices don't matter if there's huge demand from other buyers - and it's pretty clear there would be. So I think that's a very fair estimate - and it might even go higher. Frankly, while I get the appeal of a rookie-contract, at that price, we might as well give those and Lock/other young guy to HOU. Anyone who is thinking of offering that for an unproven rookie, vs. a proven top 6 QB like Watson (even at his 2nd contract price, without the signing bonus I re-iterate it will be below market for a top 10 QB), I'd go the Watson side. Especially when the result we're now looking for is a top 6-7 QB, not just a top 10-12 QB (playing in a division with Mahomes & now Herbert, the bar for being competitive is higher - getting a Baker Mayfield / Derek Carr result doesn't help us compete nearly as much as if we were in another division). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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