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Trade Targets?


pacman5252

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10 minutes ago, Haha21 said:

I don't think that Fuller is worth any more than a 3rd and giving up that would still bother me. Prior to the 2020 season, Fuller had missed playing in 22 games. He is a huge injury risk and has shown he can't stay healthy in this league. That drops his value for me. It has been said many times that the best ability in this league is availability and Fuller is too injury prone despite his talent. I would trade a conditional 4th for him

I think he’d only be a rental this year, so would just have to have to get through the season and hopefully the SB. Of course there’s some injury risk but that’s true for anybody.  I also wouldn’t want to pay more than a third for that but we could hopefully get a decent comp pick back, especially if he produces while he’s here. 
 

People waiting for a Gallup or some other blockbuster trade are bound to be disappointed. Either we need to mortgage the future of draft picks, or worse give up draft picks and take on a high salary. A deal for a player like Fuller is about as rich as I expect to see and even that is doubtful.

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1 hour ago, Fl0nkerton said:

willing to bet that every qb past the age of 12 likes receivers that run good routes knows where they’re supposed to be and can catch the ball. 

And Rodgers is no exception.  If a wr can do that coming into the organization … he'll do just fine without 1000's reps.

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11 minutes ago, Leader said:

Zach Kruse - 

MVS: 71st (out of 72) in DVOA, 103rd (out of 107) in PFF grade

Will Fuller: 7th in DVOA, 19th in PFF grade

Getting Fuller and having him do all the MVS stuff would be a HUGE upgrade.

Don't make me horny!!! I'm getting all aroused and I know this is going to end flat and very disappointing...

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1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

Not disputing that Cooper has a "bad" contract.

But the Cowboys really do not need to find cap space.  They are $29.2M under the cap right now.  

$35.4M under the projected cap next year.

The wildcard is Dak, but my guess is that he isn't getting a 30M+ long term offer, so I don't think he's gonna be very expensive. 

And with how their record is, they could easily draft a QB in the first and let Dak hit free agency.

The deal with Dallas is talent.  They should want picks to re-build their talent level.  Especially in the secondary and DL.  Just time and health should get their o-line back to form.

Dallas does have a cap issue and it goes beyond Dak. They have to make a choices on Awuize, Lewis, Woods and Smith on the defense alone for next year. If they have 35m as you say that makes it slightly easier, but I saw that they only have 24m available next year.

Also it’s not a slam dunk they can just draft a QB in the first. They currently sit at 10th overall, with 3 QBs available (given how most see it currently) and about 4/5 teams that could take a QB ahead of them.

So they aren’t in a spot where they can say they are guaranteed a QB, let alone one that they like. So they will have to do something with Dak... and if they tag him that destroys next year alone.

And if they sell the farm to trade up, well they now don’t have draft picks to really build the roster and no money to sign guys.

So of all the “bad” contracts they have Cooper is the most likely to have juice on the market (no one will take zeke, lawerance, Smith, etc)... although that contract is just sooo heavy if I was a GM I’d just offer a seventh and say my favor is taking that off your books. Or even do like a hockey trade and trade a 7th and get back Cooper and like a 5th for a salary dump.

Either way GB can’t do that type of business now anyways. Again they need guys like Fuller that are pure rentals.

Because unless they feel good about replacing all Bak, Jones, Corey, King, etc with current depth guys... they have their own cap issues.

 

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42 minutes ago, Green19 said:

Dallas does have a cap issue and it goes beyond Dak. They have to make a choices on Awuize, Lewis, Woods and Smith on the defense alone for next year. If they have 35m as you say that makes it slightly easier, but I saw that they only have 24m available next year.

Also it’s not a slam dunk they can just draft a QB in the first. They currently sit at 10th overall, with 3 QBs available (given how most see it currently) and about 4/5 teams that could take a QB ahead of them.

So they aren’t in a spot where they can say they are guaranteed a QB, let alone one that they like. So they will have to do something with Dak... and if they tag him that destroys next year alone.

And if they sell the farm to trade up, well they now don’t have draft picks to really build the roster and no money to sign guys.

So of all the “bad” contracts they have Cooper is the most likely to have juice on the market (no one will take zeke, lawerance, Smith, etc)... although that contract is just sooo heavy if I was a GM I’d just offer a seventh and say my favor is taking that off your books. Or even do like a hockey trade and trade a 7th and get back Cooper and like a 5th for a salary dump.

Either way GB can’t do that type of business now anyways. Again they need guys like Fuller that are pure rentals.

Because unless they feel good about replacing all Bak, Jones, Corey, King, etc with current depth guys... they have their own cap issues.

 

When are sitting as far under the cap as they are this year, and well under the cap for next year despite it reportedly going down, and your hard choices are guys named Awuize, Lewis, Woods and Smith, I maintain they are in a fine cap spot.  And they've never had trouble re-doing deals to gain cap space.

Their tough spot is QB.  Given that injury, I don't feel like anyone is giving Dak a long term deal with a lot of guaranteed money.  And I can easily be wrong about that.

Talent wise, I think their entire o-line is hurt.  And some of the backups.  A simple year of health and that unit should be fine to start the season.

So, they should look at corners, safeties and defensive linemen.  Plenty of picks for that...and still plenty of money to spend.  Not sure how Aldon Smith fits into everything and that is a wildcard.  I don't think that much of him, in the little I saw this year, he got sacks when the QB ran into him and the announcers gushed over it because of his story.  Admit to that could be just me seeing that.  Maybe he is playing at a high level.

And I still don't feel like Jerry is gonna all of a sudden trade the WR that he gave up a first for...and signed to a long term deal for a lot of money.  It's too soon for him to look that inept.  

Therefore...they should just trade us Gallup for our second and MVS right now.  Get a good pick to incorporate into that secondary.  :)

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6 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

When are sitting as far under the cap as they are this year, and well under the cap for next year despite it reportedly going down, and your hard choices are guys named Awuize, Lewis, Woods and Smith, I maintain they are in a fine cap spot.  And they've never had trouble re-doing deals to gain cap space.

Their tough spot is QB.  Given that injury, I don't feel like anyone is giving Dak a long term deal with a lot of guaranteed money.  And I can easily be wrong about that.

Talent wise, I think their entire o-line is hurt.  And some of the backups.  A simple year of health and that unit should be fine to start the season.

So, they should look at corners, safeties and defensive linemen.  Plenty of picks for that...and still plenty of money to spend.  Not sure how Aldon Smith fits into everything and that is a wildcard.  I don't think that much of him, in the little I saw this year, he got sacks when the QB ran into him and the announcers gushed over it because of his story.  Admit to that could be just me seeing that.  Maybe he is playing at a high level.

And I still don't feel like Jerry is gonna all of a sudden trade the WR that he gave up a first for...and signed to a long term deal for a lot of money.  It's too soon for him to look that inept.  

Therefore...they should just trade us Gallup for our second and MVS right now.  Get a good pick to incorporate into that secondary.  :)

Agree to disagree. I think they have a lot of money in declining/under performing players. Example of this Tyron Smith who can’t stay healthy and for the next 3 seasons he is like a $14M cap hit each year.

They will need to either hope they hit in the draft to get a nice swing tackle or spend to secure one. They just seem to have a lot of these on roster. The biggest one is zeke, but you can easily draft a young guy that could help... they just would need give that guy touches regardless of zeke’s contract.

I guess my point of view is until it’s obvious they are in a spot to secure a QB in the draft... you have to assume they will keep Dak and that won’t be cheap regardless his injury. And they don’t have flexibility to kind of rebuild that roster to win now with Dak.

If they draft a young guy... then they have time and you’re right the cap isn’t as big of an issue. It just is if you are trying to win now with Dak, kind of hard to sell rebuild when you sign a franchise QB.

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11 minutes ago, Green19 said:

Agree to disagree. I think they have a lot of money in declining/under performing players. Example of this Tyron Smith who can’t stay healthy and for the next 3 seasons he is like a $14M cap hit each year.

They will need to either hope they hit in the draft to get a nice swing tackle or spend to secure one. They just seem to have a lot of these on roster. The biggest one is zeke, but you can easily draft a young guy that could help... they just would need give that guy touches regardless of zeke’s contract.

I guess my point of view is until it’s obvious they are in a spot to secure a QB in the draft... you have to assume they will keep Dak and that won’t be cheap regardless his injury. And they don’t have flexibility to kind of rebuild that roster to win now with Dak.

If they draft a young guy... then they have time and you’re right the cap isn’t as big of an issue. It just is if you are trying to win now with Dak, kind of hard to sell rebuild when you sign a franchise QB.

I checked, again.  $67M under the cap this year.  $73.3M under next year.  Per Spotrac.

I'll check over the cap.  $29M under the cap this year.  $24.7M under the cap next year.

Wow.  What a difference.  Wonder if the difference is the amount of money on IR.

No doubt they have some bad contracts.  I wouldn't call the Smith deal a bad one.  He usually plays 13-16 games a season.  Just got hurt this year, neck, I think.  It happens.  But they've got a top tier LT under contract for the next 3 years with cap hits of $14M, $15.2M and $15.3M.  Looks like $17.3M is guaranteed.

So, I'll flip this your way, play GM.  Would you sign Bakh to a 3 year deal, worth $44.5M?  $17.3M guaranteed?  Remember, Bakh is now coming off of a year where he's been injured, too.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I checked, again.  $67M under the cap this year.  $73.3M under next year.  Per Spotrac.

I'll check over the cap.  $29M under the cap this year.  $24.7M under the cap next year.

Wow.  What a difference.  Wonder if the difference is the amount of money on IR.

No doubt they have some bad contracts.  I wouldn't call the Smith deal a bad one.  He usually plays 13-16 games a season.  Just got hurt this year, neck, I think.  It happens.  But they've got a top tier LT under contract for the next 3 years with cap hits of $14M, $15.2M and $15.3M.  Looks like $17.3M is guaranteed.

So, I'll flip this your way, play GM.  Would you sign Bakh to a 3 year deal, worth $44.5M?  $17.3M guaranteed?  Remember, Bakh is now coming off of a year where he's been injured, too.

Does it really matter how much under the cap another team is?

Green Bay is up against it. There's no guarantee that next years cap is gonna be enough for us to re-sign/extend our own guys - no less take on a large contract from another team.

This is a reason why I dont think any top line / expensive deals will be reached - for this guy or Fuller.

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4 minutes ago, Leader said:

Does it really matter how much under the cap another team is?

Green Bay is up against it. There's no guarantee that next years cap is gonna be enough for us to re-sign/extend our own guys - no less take on a large contract from another team.

This is a reason why I dont think any top line / expensive deals will be reached - for this guy or Fuller.

When we are chatting about trading for guys, like Gallup or Cooper, yes.  The rest of the talent evaluation, no.  I apologize.  Sorry for making you read that.

Regarding your thoughts on the cap and potential trades....yes...the Packers cap is very relevant.  

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Just now, vegas492 said:

When we are chatting about trading for guys, like Gallup or Cooper, yes.  The rest of the talent evaluation, no.  I apologize.  Sorry for making you read that.

Regarding your thoughts on the cap and potential trades....yes...the Packers cap is very relevant.  

I am very curious, though, to the discrepancy between Spotrac and OvertheCap.  I think it is money of IR, though I'm not sure.  

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2 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I checked, again.  $67M under the cap this year.  $73.3M under next year.  Per Spotrac.

I'll check over the cap.  $29M under the cap this year.  $24.7M under the cap next year.

Wow.  What a difference.  Wonder if the difference is the amount of money on IR.

No doubt they have some bad contracts.  I wouldn't call the Smith deal a bad one.  He usually plays 13-16 games a season.  Just got hurt this year, neck, I think.  It happens.  But they've got a top tier LT under contract for the next 3 years with cap hits of $14M, $15.2M and $15.3M.  Looks like $17.3M is guaranteed.

So, I'll flip this your way, play GM.  Would you sign Bakh to a 3 year deal, worth $44.5M?  $17.3M guaranteed?  Remember, Bakh is now coming off of a year where he's been injured, too.

 

 

For GB... it depends on Jenkins and I said this in a different thread. If your staff thinks he can be a pro bowl level LT in this league. You can let Bak walk and collect that 3rd comp. Plug Runyan at LG, Hanson at C... and that’s you line for the next 5 - 10 years.

Without being in that building it’s tough to say though. So going off the information presented at this time, yeah I would sign Bak at that contract. You have to figure you need a known player at that spot for the end of Rodgers’ career/beginning of Love’s.

Where I would save is Jones, Corey and King. If Jackson keeps playing well... King can be an easier and easier choice to make.

GB is doing long term building right at this point. Dillion replaces Jones and Hanson replaces Corey... ideally. Jackson is a bonus development to replace King. I think GB is likely looking early in the draft next year for a CB, offensive weapon (WR/TE), and DL.

Late in the draft OT, RB, OLB, S seems to be likely targets.

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18 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I checked, again.  $67M under the cap this year.  $73.3M under next year.  Per Spotrac.

I'll check over the cap.  $29M under the cap this year.  $24.7M under the cap next year.

Wow.  What a difference.  Wonder if the difference is the amount of money on IR.

No doubt they have some bad contracts.  I wouldn't call the Smith deal a bad one.  He usually plays 13-16 games a season.  Just got hurt this year, neck, I think.  It happens.  But they've got a top tier LT under contract for the next 3 years with cap hits of $14M, $15.2M and $15.3M.  Looks like $17.3M is guaranteed.

So, I'll flip this your way, play GM.  Would you sign Bakh to a 3 year deal, worth $44.5M?  $17.3M guaranteed?  Remember, Bakh is now coming off of a year where he's been injured, too.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I am very curious, though, to the discrepancy between Spotrac and OvertheCap.  I think it is money of IR, though I'm not sure.  

I think the difference might be in how/what each site is using for the league base salary cap for the 2021 season.   

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7 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

When we are chatting about trading for guys, like Gallup or Cooper, yes.  The rest of the talent evaluation, no.  I apologize.  Sorry for making you read that.

Regarding your thoughts on the cap and potential trades....yes...the Packers cap is very relevant.  

Not a problem. I've been reading this stuff with half a brain simply because I dont see GB pulling off any *big* trades -  primarily because of cash and cap stuff. Doesnt mean it wont happen.....just not their style.

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