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Week 4 GDT: Bills (3-0) @ Raiders (2-1)


NYRaider

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12 minutes ago, doctordeath said:

When you watch the games, herbert has done a heck of alot better of a job keeping his team competitive than carr has--today, and if we're comparing rookie years, herbert's already wayyyyyyy better than carr's rookie year.

Carr could throw a billion tds, but to my other point, the defense is trash (plus carr doesn't have the killer instinct to get over that hump and carry us on his back), so I don't think we'll ever have the chance.

Herbert seems to have that it factor even if the win loss doesn't say it just yet. He reminds me of a bigger, stronger, faster romo.

He's kept his team competitive because their defense was great against KC and Carolina holding them to 23 and 20 and good in the 1st half today against the Buccaneers holding them to 14 and also coming up with a pick six. When your offense is able to score a total of 60 points over 3 weeks and still only lose all 3 of those games by 1 score, I don't think you should really give them too much credit. He crapped the bed against the Chiefs and the Buccaneers in the second half and they were out scored by 28 in those two and he made crucial errors at the end of both games that caused them to lose.

Peyton Manning went 6-10 the year the Colts allowed 30+ ppg, Aaron Rodgers is 12-33 in games the Packers have allowed 30+, and Mahomes is 4-7 in games that the Chiefs have allowed 30+. So what QB is able to consistently win when their defense is giving up 30+ every week? 

The IT factor has been on full display in the second halves of games when the Chargers have scored 23 points, blown half time leads in 2 of those games, and Herbert has thrown interceptions in key moments against the Buccaneers and Chiefs. They've scored 2 TD's on 14 second half drives with Herbert at QB. That's that "IT" factor right there baby. 

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22 minutes ago, doctordeath said:

You'd only take 5 of them because hindsight is 20/20.

I will confidently say we should trade up (if we're not in position and the fo really is looking to move on from carr) and go for fields. He's got the accuracy but he's got the willingness to MOVE, not just willy billy like lamar but within the pocket. He reminds me of a nimbler big ben.

I agree with you, taking a qb is a risk, so is any position in the draft. You just gotta go with your scouting reports, your gut, your coaches, and turn your card in.

Hindsight is 20/20 but there was more than double the chance we took a QB who ended up being worse than Carr rather than one who is a clear upgrade.

I wouldn't mind moving up for Fields but I don't think it's a guarantee that he's better than Carr. 

Taking a QB and moving on from Carr is the biggest risk we can take though. 

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1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

He's kept his team competitive because their defense was great against KC and Carolina holding them to 23 and 20 and good in the 1st half today against the Buccaneers holding them to 14 and also coming up with a pick six. When your offense is able to score a total of 60 points over 3 weeks and still only lose all 3 of those games by 1 score, I don't think you should really give them too much credit. He crapped the bed against the Chiefs and the Buccaneers in the second half and they were out scored by 28 in those two and he made crucial errors at the end of both games that caused them to lose.

Peyton Manning went 6-10 the year the Colts allowed 30+ ppg, Aaron Rodgers is 12-33 in games the Packers have allowed 30+, and Mahomes is 4-7 in games that the Chiefs have allowed 30+. So what QB is able to consistently win when their defense is giving up 30+ every week? 

The IT factor has been on full display in the second halves of games when the Chargers have scored 23 points, blown half time leads in 2 of those games, and Herbert has thrown interceptions in key moments against the Buccaneers and Chiefs. They've scored 2 TD's on 14 second half drives with Herbert at QB. That's that "IT" factor right there baby. 

Throw out all the qb stats that you want. I never brought them into the debate, you did.

I'm simply arguing that herberts performance through the first three starts of his career is better than carr's first three game --and is far more confidence inducing for that matter.

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3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Hindsight is 20/20 but there was more than double the chance we took a QB who ended up being worse than Carr rather than one who is a clear upgrade.

I wouldn't mind moving up for Fields but I don't think it's a guarantee that he's better than Carr. 

Taking a QB and moving on from Carr is the biggest risk we can take though. 

Duh it's no guarantee but at this point the risk is as great as the reward.

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22 minutes ago, doctordeath said:

And to your when was the last te an Ohio State qb produced...

When was the last time a wyomign qb produced?

And South Dakota?

Miami of ohio?

Louiso?

Delaware?

And fresno state?

Qbs are science, research, science... And LUCK!!!!

The only reason I mentioned Ohio State was because they've been a dominant program with QB's regularly putting up gaudy numbers yet none of those guys have gone on to have NFL success. Which raises questions, how good is Fields? And how much of his success can be attributed to playing on a stacked team in an great system?

When you mention those other schools it strengthens the point I was trying to make. Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Big Ben, and Allen were are legit NFL prospects despite playing at smaller schools with limited NFL talent around them. It has been pretty rare to see a guy come out of a top tier college program and go on to have NFL success. 

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4 minutes ago, doctordeath said:

Throw out all the qb stats that you want. I never brought them into the debate, you did.

I'm simply arguing that herberts performance through the first three starts of his career is better than carr's first three game --and is far more confidence inducing for that matter.

If @MrOaktown_56 can give me warning for calling people "best", can her/her give you a warning' fo calling me "baby"???

I ain't anybody's baby. I find it offensive. Baby is surely on the same level as n00b????

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1 minute ago, doctordeath said:

Duh it's no guarantee but at this point the risk is as great as the reward.

And if you use a 1st round pick on a QB to replace Carr and he ends up being the next Josh Rosen, Mitchell Tribusky, or Dwayne Haskins, was the risk worth the reward? 

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The plain and simple truth is. We earned this loss. It was a team effort. When you lose the turn over battle you usually lose. When you don't get to the opposing QB you usually lose. When you have multiple mistakes at major points in the game you usually lose. When you do any of that against and undefeated team. You usually lose. Why defend Carr? Why blame Carr? Why blame the O? Why blame the D? Why blame the play calls? It was a complete team let down. And to me the only surprise is we were still in it. 4 weeks ago if you had told me we would be here with this record and with these injuries I would have laughed. One thing I honestly believe is this team is far better than I anticipated. I don't know of many teams that would hang with the Pats or Bills with so many injuries. Let alone defeat the Saints and Panthers. There is still a lot of season left. Breath guys. Who knows what we wills see if we ever get back healthy? I mean we are literally down about 25% of our starters. 

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2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The only reason I mentioned Ohio State was because they've been a dominant program with QB's regularly putting up gaudy numbers yet none of those guys have gone on to have NFL success. Which raises questions, how good is Fields? And how much of his success can be attributed to playing on a stacked team in an great system?

When you mention those other schools it strengthens the point I was trying to make. Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Big Ben, and Allen were are legit NFL prospects despite playing at smaller schools with limited NFL talent around them. It has been pretty rare to see a guy come out of a top tier college program and go on to have NFL success. 

Fields doesn't have a stacked team. Name me an all worldy talent on that team offense or defense.

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1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

And if you use a 1st round pick on a QB to replace Carr and he ends up being the next Josh Rosen, Mitchell Tribusky, or Dwayne Haskins, was the risk worth the reward? 

And if you use that first on a clelin ferrell with minimal impact, was the risk worth the reward?

The chiefs took a risk with mahomes, it paid off, even with Alex smith entrenched. Your mindset of not taking risks is what leads to 8-8 seasons. Glad you're not a coach/gm...

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1 minute ago, BigD1123 said:

The plain and simple truth is. We earned this loss. It was a team effort. When you lose the turn over battle you usually lose. When you don't get to the opposing QB you usually lose. When you have multiple mistakes at major points in the game you usually lose. When you do any of that against and undefeated team. You usually lose. Why defend Carr? Why blame Carr? Why blame the O? Why blame the D? Why blame the play calls? It was a complete team let down. And to me the only surprise is we were still in it. 4 weeks ago if you had told me we would be here with this record and with these injuries I would have laughed. One thing I honestly believe is this team is far better than I anticipated. I don't know of many teams that would hang with the Pats or Bills with so many injuries. Let alone defeat the Saints and Panthers. There is still a lot of season left. Breath guys. Who knows what we wills see if we ever get back healthy? I mean we are literally down about 25% of our starters. 

Good post. This really was a Team L today. Top to Bottom. The offense was super sloppy with turnovers. We didn’t solely lose because of defense. We’ve been winning games with a horrid D for 5 years. This was a team loss from all 53 and all the coaches. 

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8 minutes ago, doctordeath said:

Throw out all the qb stats that you want. I never brought them into the debate, you did.

I'm simply arguing that herberts performance through the first three starts of his career is better than carr's first three game --and is far more confidence inducing for that matter.

His three starts where he has blown a 10+ point second half lead twice while making 2 key mistakes that lost them games? Or was it the 23 points they've scored on 14 second half possessions that has been so inspiring for Herbert? 

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Just now, NYRaider said:

His three starts where he has blown a 10+ point second half lead twice while making 2 key mistakes that lost them games? Or was it the 23 points they've scored on 14 second half possessions that has been so inspiring for Herbert? 

Like I said, watch the game. Herbert has kept it competitive compared to carr.

I don't want to spell it out for you just because you don't have game pass.

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2 minutes ago, doctordeath said:

Fields doesn't have a stacked team. Name me an all worldy talent on that team offense or defense.

They had 10 guys drafted in 2020 and have 6 guys other than Fields that are projected as 1st-3rd round prospects in 2021.

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3 minutes ago, doctordeath said:

Like I said, watch the game. Herbert has kept it competitive compared to carr.

I don't want to spell it out for you just because you don't have game pass.

I’m sorry this guy is a clown, just look at his default. Offense need a good defense to be functional. This defense can’t get off the field or generate turnovers. Give me Mike Williams and Keenan Allen all day over Nelson Agholor. Chargers still lost, yet again....

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