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Week 4 GDT: Bills (3-0) @ Raiders (2-1)

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Just now, doctordeath said:

Like I said, fields is bigger, faster verst of romo. That which haskins is not. Unlike you, I don't focus in on stats and #s, I like watching games and the eye test.

Yes, I've watch the osu games. Fields is a heck of a lot better than haskins, if that's comparison you're trying to make...

It's also hilarious to argue that Ohio State isn't a stacked program. Over the last three seasons they're 38-4 and of their 38 victories, 35 of them have been by 10+ points. And they've been able to do that with 3 different starting QBs. 

I think Fields is definitely a better prospect than Haskins or any QB to come out of OSU recently. But again, their lack of success producing NFL QB's cannot be ignored when evaluating Fields. He played on one of the most talented teams in the country with an elite offensive line, Heisman level running back, and 3 future NFL WR's. We also haven't seen him play a ton because he only has 14 career starts. And in those 14 career starts he hasn't really faced much adversity as OSU won every game by 10+ points, only trailed at half time once the entire season, and only trailed in the 4th quarter for a total of 1:49 the entire season. 

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59 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

I’m sorry this guy is a clown, just look at his default. Offense need a good defense to be functional. This defense can’t get off the field or generate turnovers. Give me Mike Williams and Keenan Allen all day over Nelson Agholor. Chargers still lost, yet again....

Again, I will start giving out warnings. No insults.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said:

If you don’t fix the defense, you can draft Tom Brady to this franchise, and he will struggle 

Record when the opposing team scores 30+ points.

Mahomes: 4-7

Rodgers: 12-33

Watson: 2-11

Wilson: 7-16

Prescott: 3-8

Jackson: 0-3 

Brady: 17-30

Carr: 7-31

 

Edited by NYRaider

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Posted (edited)

In Mahomes 31 wins with the Chiefs they've given up an average of 19.3 ppg and in his 8 losses they've given up an average of 35.7 ppg. 

In Jackson's 22 wins the Ravens have given up an average of 15.3 ppg and in his 5 losses they've given up an average of 30.8 ppg. 

In Watson's 25 wins the Texans have given up an average of 17.6 ppg and in his 19 losses they have given up an average of 31.6 ppg. 

In Carr's 41 wins we've allowed an average of 21.9 ppg and in his 57 losses we've given up an average of 29.1 ppg. 

Anyone see a trend here? 

 

Edited by NYRaider
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Posted (edited)

Derek Carr's defense has given up 30+ in 38 of his 98 career games (39%)

Tom Brady's defense has given up 30+ in 47 of his 327 career games (14%)

Aaron Rodgers defense has given up 30+ in 45 of his 195 career games (23%)

DeShaun Watson's defense given up 30+ in 14 of his 44 career games (31%)

Lamar Jackson's defense has given up 30+ in 4 of his 27 career games (14%)

Patrick Mahomes defense has given up 30+ in 10 his 38 career games (26%) 

Edited by NYRaider

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Carr is 31-18 (63%) when our defense allows 24 or less and 10-39 (20%) when our defense allows more than 24 points. Funny enough it's actually an even split up to this point of his career. He has had 49 career games where the defense allowed 24 or less and 49 career games where the defense has allowed more than 24. And his winning % is more than 3 times greater when our defense plays well then it is when our defense plays bad. 

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6 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Hmmm. I don’t wanna get involved in this debate, but no, Carr didn’t keep us in the game. Walking fumble machine this year, and fumbled again this game. Also missed a few very crucial throws. He also threw short of the 3rd down marker multiple times like he did constantly in 2017-2019. 
 

Carr did not have a good game.... at all, what so ever. I’m not gonna say he had a bad game, and I’m not gonna say he’s having a bad season. He had an ok game, and is having just an ok season, but he did not keep us “in” this game. Rather laughable statement. 

who kept us in the game then? we weren't driving to possibly tie game when waller fumbles? 

is that not in the game? 

 

I can't defend some of the throwing short of first throws as they get me upset sometimes too. other teams throw short of sticks vs us and convert though. 

 

he didn't miss many throws though. waller should of had one by goal line, even announcers stated that.  the fumble late hurt and was soft fumble imo but wallers was worse. 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, roi34 said:

who kept us in the game then? we weren't driving to possibly tie game when waller fumbles? 

is that not in the game? 

We were down by 1 the entire 3rd quarter, down by 7 to start the 4th, and were driving and had a chance to tie it with like 11 min remaining but apparently the game was out of reach, lol. 

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9 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

We were down by 1 the entire 3rd quarter, down by 7 to start the 4th, and were driving and had a chance to tie it with like 11 min remaining but apparently the game was out of reach, lol. 

took us years to find a QB who was solid. people forget what our bad QBs look like? 

Carr isn't Russell wilson, but he's not baker mayfield either

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1 minute ago, roi34 said:

took us years to find a QB who was solid. people forget what our bad QBs look like? 

Carr isn't Russell wilson, but he's not baker mayfield either

Between 2005 and 2013 we had 13 different starters at QB with only 3 of them starting here for more than 16 games: JaMarcus Russell, Jason Campbell, and Carson Palmer. I still remember when we had hope that McGloin or Pryor could be our QB going forward, lol. 

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12 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Is it Carr's fault that Gruden has gone ultra conservative in scoring positions the last two weeks? That our defense can't stop anyone? That our run blocking/game has been poor? 

Carr's on pace for 4,400 yards, 32 TD, 0 INT while completing over 70% of his passes despite not having his top 3 WR's for the majority of the season. I'm not a huge fan of him but to blame the last two weeks on him is dumb. 

It's a passing league, those numbers are good not amazing for this era. No picks is great, but is mostly a function of his fully skilled but ultra conservative approach that lends itself to not making mistakes but not winning big moments. Fumbles count as turnovers and his have been brutal. He sees ghosts in the pocket.

I'm not prepared to blame the last two weeks on him. Nor would I credit him for the first two. That's kinda the point. You can't have a QB who isn't the reason you are a great team. You can't expect to put this amazing team around a guy just so he can be merely good. If your QB isn't your top player you are not winning any super bowls these days, not with Mahomes around.

But it's enough already. 7 years in, it's clear that unless this guy has an all pro cast all around him to carry all the weight he's not going to break through. He cannot carry the weight. 2016 Carr is long gone.

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33 minutes ago, holyghost said:

It's a passing league, those numbers are good not amazing for this era. No picks is great, but is mostly a function of his fully skilled but ultra conservative approach that lends itself to not making mistakes but not winning big moments. Fumbles count as turnovers and his have been brutal. He sees ghosts in the pocket.

I'm not prepared to blame the last two weeks on him. Nor would I credit him for the first two. That's kinda the point. You can't have a QB who isn't the reason you are a great team. You can't expect to put this amazing team around a guy just so he can be merely good. If your QB isn't your top player you are not winning any super bowls these days, not with Mahomes around.

But it's enough already. 7 years in, it's clear that unless this guy has an all pro cast all around him to carry all the weight he's not going to break through. He cannot carry the weight. 2016 Carr is long gone.

True or false has Carr gotten better every single year under Gruden?

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

True or false has Carr gotten better every single year under Gruden?

Better......

Better at what is the real question? Stats better looking? 

Let me retort with this. Under Gruden, has Carr looked any more likely to beat players like Mahomes, Watson, Rodgers, Wilson, and so on..? He's a middle of the pack QB, 7 years in it's overwhelmingly likely what he will always be. Reality is printed out here by now. An efficient middle of the road QB who struggles to create, does poorly with pressure, and does not rise to big moments with the exception of one outlier year - whose success was also significantly built on defensive turnover numbers unlikely to be replicated. Come playoff time, if we ever get there with Carr, what chance does he have to beat what will likely be a better QB on the opposing team in every game?

Edited by holyghost

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18 minutes ago, holyghost said:

Better......

Better at what is the real question? Stats better looking? 

Let me retort with this. Under Gruden, has Carr looked any more likely to beat players like Mahomes, Watson, Rodgers, Wilson, and so on..? He's a middle of the pack QB, 7 years in it's overwhelmingly likely what he will always be. Reality is printed out here by now. An efficient middle of the road QB who struggles to create, does poorly with pressure, and does not rise to big moments with the exception of one outlier year - whose success was also significantly built on defensive turnover numbers unlikely to be replicated. Come playoff time, if we ever get there with Carr, what chance does he have to beat what will likely be a better QB on the opposing team in every game?

You're dreaming if you think the Raiders can get a better QB then Carr. 

 

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