NYRaider Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jerry said: Either way, we need a better defense. Defense should be addressed and built into a top 15 unit. I don't get why our offense is harped on so hard when our defense might as well sit the game. Defense wins championships. The last 10 Super Bowl winners averaged defensively: 332 ypg allowed, 18.9 ppg allowed, 41 sacks, 29 takeaways. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: My point was about which is easier to obtain. Improving the pieces around the QB or improving the QB. I have been saying it since 2017 that we might need to go a different direction at the QB position. Carr still does stuff that bothers me but has improved in other areas. I just think we might be spinning our wheels with Carr if our goal is to win a championship. We'll never be a true contender regardless of who we have at QB if we have a terrible defense, can't rush the passer, and can't force turnovers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Just now, NYRaider said: We'll never be a true contender regardless of who we have at QB if we have a terrible defense, can't rush the passer, and can't force turnovers. This is true and this year we are giving the ball away to much on offense and doing it at crucial times. We were at +/- 0 in the first 2 games but are a combined -2 in each of the last 2 games. If we were +4 right now we are probably 4-0. This team is 2016 without having a huge advantage in TOs. If you think we are going to make it to 9-7 then we are going to need to be at +6 the rest of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: This is true and this year we are giving the ball away to much on offense and doing it at crucial times. We were at +/- 0 in the first 2 games but are a combined -2 in each of the last 2 games. If we were +4 right now we are probably 4-0. This team is 2016 without having a huge advantage in TOs. If you think we are going to make it to 9-7 then we are going to need to be at +6 the rest of the year. Even the best QB's in NFL history have struggled when their defense gives up 30+ points. Our 2016 defense wasn't very good but we only gave up 24 ppg, were 2nd in the league with 30 takeaways, and only allowed 30+ points 4 times the whole year. This season we're giving up 30 ppg, are dead last in takeaways, and have already allowed 30+ points 3 times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Even the best QB's in NFL history have struggled when their defense gives up 30+ points. Our 2016 defense wasn't very good but we only gave up 24 ppg, were 2nd in the league with 30 takeaways, and only allowed 30+ points 4 times the whole year. This season we're giving up 30 ppg, are dead last in takeaways, and have already allowed 30+ points 3 times. Completely agree. I listed some really good QBs a while back who had losing seasons when their defenses were garbage. We need a new DC bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 41 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: I do not think anyone is happy with the defense and the holes are obvious. I think the offense catches a lot of criticism because they are suppose to be our strength and the primary reason we gave a head coach $100 million over ten years. If we gave that to BB I would probably criticize the defense a lot more than the offense. We need to start by getting a good DC to see what we have on defense but I do not think Gruden wants a top tier defense. It would be a shot to his ego if his DC could carry the team and the offense was not the reason we won. Well he needs to suck it up. Our defense might as well be a bunch of lepers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Even the best QB's in NFL history have struggled when their defense gives up 30+ points. Our 2016 defense wasn't very good but we only gave up 24 ppg, were 2nd in the league with 30 takeaways, and only allowed 30+ points 4 times the whole year. This season we're giving up 30 ppg, are dead last in takeaways, and have already allowed 30+ points 3 times. This is not Carr's fault but a lot of the defense's struggles are coaching and we have given up 24 points off of TOs and missed field goals. On the flip side we have scored 2 field goals off of TOs the defense has created. Point differential from TOs removed and our defense is ranked 18th in points allowed at 26.5. If we had a positive TO ratio the points allowed is even lower. The difference between 2016 and this year is TOs. Funny thing is thru the first 4 games in 2016 our defense gave up 26.5 points a game and we had a TO differential of +4. We gave up 30+ points twice and almost a 3rd time to the Ravens who scored 27. Week 5 we gave up 31 to the Chargers. After the defense settled in and I think we might see something similar if we get rid of Guenther. I do not think the defense wants to play for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Jerry said: Well he needs to suck it up. Our defense might as well be a bunch of lepers. I said this when we first hired Gruden that his ego will be his downfall. If you read my post above this one I explain the difference between this years team and 2016. We can win but it is going to come down to making mistakes and forcing mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyghost Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 My commentary on Carr was just entirely about Carr. It's plainly obvious we are trotting out perhaps the worst defense in football. Carr has nothing to do with that. Still, even with a good defense (which we are not anywhere close to), I think quite a few QBs eat Carr's lunch when it comes time to win a game. Really it was just sickening me watching him fumble again and again. Watching the offense he is supposed to run operate with no urgency. In the end all I'd like at this point is for some fans here to stop comparing him to top QBs after 7 years. He is who he is. And we'll suck until we have an amazing QB or a really good defense. Neither of which is at all on the horizon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, drfrey13 said: This is true and this year we are giving the ball away to much on offense and doing it at crucial times. We were at +/- 0 in the first 2 games but are a combined -2 in each of the last 2 games. If we were +4 right now we are probably 4-0. This team is 2016 without having a huge advantage in TOs. If you think we are going to make it to 9-7 then we are going to need to be at +6 the rest of the year. Maybe because we're always playing from behind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 32 minutes ago, holyghost said: My commentary on Carr was just entirely about Carr. It's plainly obvious we are trotting out perhaps the worst defense in football. Carr has nothing to do with that. Still, even with a good defense (which we are not anywhere close to), I think quite a few QBs eat Carr's lunch when it comes time to win a game. Really it was just sickening me watching him fumble again and again. Watching the offense he is supposed to run operate with no urgency. In the end all I'd like at this point is for some fans here to stop comparing him to top QBs after 7 years. He is who he is. And we'll suck until we have an amazing QB or a really good defense. Neither of which is at all on the horizon. It'd be impossible to consistently win games even with a top flight QB due to our defense. Carr's defense average ppg allowed - 26.1 Wilson's defense average ppg allowed - 19.0 Mahomes defense average ppg allowed - 22.5 Jackson's defense average ppg allowed - 18.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 4 hours ago, holyghost said: Alright, so fleshing this out - That's 4 in more than 20 years. 3 of the 4 had literally the best defense in football that year. 20% of the time, average QBs won the Super Bowl. 5% of the time it was without the best defense in football. And Nick Foles was really good in the playoffs in what was an all around team effort. Peyton Manning, arm deficiencies aside was NOT a bad QB at all. Come on now. And Flacco like I said, had a great playoff run. All in all how do these odds look for Carr when guys like Mahomes, Watson, Wilson, Rodgers, Jackson are on the opposing sidelines? Especially in the playoffs. And it won't be long before you can add Allen, possibly Burrow, Herbert, to the list. Among others like Brady, Newton, Garoppolo, and others who can likely beat Carr with better play and better overall teams. I didnt go back 20 years, i went back to Balts SB so 8. 3 of 8 superbowls the worse QB IMO won. I think that shows that it is a team sport. to Peyton Manning, I literally said in my post I agree they arent Crappy. But I think Carr is playing better than Manning was at that point. Last year, it took KCs D shutting the niners out in the 4th to give their O a chance - Do you think our D wouldve given our O a chance to make the come back? Do you think our D wouldve held the rams to 3 points or the pats to 13 the year prior? 4 years ago - Brady gets all the praise for the big comeback (well deserved) but the Pats D shut down one of hte best O of all time to 0 points in the second half. then there is Eli and the Giants - again amazing D, holding one of the greatest Os of all time to 17. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: Last year, it took KCs D shutting the niners out in the 4th to give their O a chance - Do you think our D wouldve given our O a chance to make the come back? The Chiefs defense was good last season too. They were top 10 in scoring defense, sacks, and takeaways. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctordeath Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 On 10/5/2020 at 1:43 AM, Humble_Beast said: I know your a clown because you use an A before a vowel. Basic english, never would get anywhere writing on college. Keep spelling your nonsense 😂 Writing *on college????? Here you are trying to devolve the discussion into grammar, and I'm still talking football... Says you edited your quote and still MISSED that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctordeath Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Just now, doctordeath said: Writing *on college????? Here you are trying to devolve the discussion into grammar, and I'm still talking football... Says you edited your quote and still MISSED that. Oh, and also, your use of "your" is insanely laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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