Week 4 GDT: Bills (3-0) @ Raiders (2-1)

[Bitty 2.0]

11 hours ago, doctordeath said:

One too many, especially after 2017, when carr should've been on the hotseat: Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, PAT, Deshaun, Kyler... Yeah, they're all first round picks but deservedly so: KILLER INSTINCT which equates to putting the team on their back. Hence why their teams drafted them where they did and gave up what they did.

Oh, and they're also DYNAMIC, which carr is not. I'm not saying he's bad. His stats speak for themselves. But when you watch him play, the head scratching decision making, the seemingly small hands, the lack of gusto.... 

Great you named 4 out of what 30 QBs.

Just because a QB is good for 1 year doesn't mean they're going to pan out. Just asked the Rams and the Eagles.

[Darbsk]

On 10/5/2020 at 4:01 AM, doctordeath said:

also, carr is TRASH when it matters like I've been saying. Any qb that wants to be in the to 12, you better be able to carry the team on your back noatter how crap your d is.

Like Watson, Prescott, Wentz, Stafford and Ryan are currently doing? Are any of these losers top 12 QBs??

This debate has become absurd.

[Jerry]

13 hours ago, doctordeath said:

It'd help any team. But name me the last crap offense/top defense combo that won a superbowl? The 02 bucs? Better yet, name me how many MODERN superbowls were won by crap offenses owing their top defense?

 

New York Giants, both recent SB teams.  Denver Broncos in 2016 with noodle arm P. Manning.  2012 Baltimore Ravens (postseason offense was much better than regular season).  The 2008 Steelers.  I think even the 2018 Patriots offense wasn't that good.

[doctordeath]

10 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

Also, if you're on d and you're not very good, and you know your qb doesn't have that killer instinct (the ability to provide a kill shot when necessary and put the team on your back RELIABLY), wouldn't that effect effort and the overall outcome?

ah, sorry.. you stated the above. your point being (i thought) that if youre on D and you QB doesnt have a killer D, that it effects their effort and overall outcome.

I was asking, if Blake Bortles then in your opinion had that killer instinct? Because that D played phonemail all year.

Essentially, I was proving your statement wrong... unless you want to claim Bortles had that killer instinct. 

You're forgetting the part that I said if you're on d AND YOURE NOT VERY GOOD.

Which doesn't apply to that jags d. They were very much good. 

[BackinBlack]

40 minutes ago, doctordeath said:

You're forgetting the part that I said if you're on d AND YOURE NOT VERY GOOD.

Which doesn't apply to that jags d. They were very much good. 

ok fair, I wasnt really sure what you meant by the and youre not very good. 
1.do you mean an individual player thinks to himself that he isnt very good?
2.or the D thinks that their D isnt very good
3.or the D thinks that their O isnt very good?
4.or the D thinks that their team overall isnt very good?

-
1 - D especially is about playing with confidence in yourself. If we have players that think they arent very good - get them off the team please. - has nothing to do with Carr
2. if players on our D, think our D isnt very good - thats on PG - get him off the team please. - nothing to do with Carr.
3. If our D thinks our O is the problem, Id be shocked. Our two wins have come from the Offence carrying the load. - I guess this could be on Carr, but, Id say thats on Coaching, our O has been top 10 in most categories. 
4. If the D thinks the team overall isnt very good, and they are mailing it in - again get that loser off my team. That is on the GM

Edited October 8, 2020 by BackinBlack

[Humble_Beast]

Is it smart to rush Ruggs back this week? I would hate to see him get hurt in a game we have a high probability of losing. Our bye is next week.... 

[MrOaktown_56]

At some point, when you have a contrarian take that no one seems to agree with (and yes we're all watching the same game), I think it's safe to ask yourself why no one else agrees.

I combed over the all 22 again. The defense was an embarrasment.

Carr played absolutely fine. He actually held the ball longer to get the ball downfield on chunk plays. There is no winning with some people. Gabe Jackson gets walked back into his lap on a play that could have gone for 6 to Waller if he had half another second. He was even looking his way.

Instead people are complaining about the strip sack when he was looking for the homerun instead of an 8 yard checkdown.

The fact that the offense put up 34 points in the first 2 games with rookie WR is telling. If this offense is healthy, they can do some things. The defense on the other hand...

[NCOUGHMAN]

51 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

At some point, when you have a contrarian take that no one seems to agree with (and yes we're all watching the same game), I think it's safe to ask yourself why no one else agrees.

I combed over the all 22 again. The defense was an embarrasment.

Carr played absolutely fine. He actually held the ball longer to get the ball downfield on chunk plays. There is no winning with some people. Gabe Jackson gets walked back into his lap on a play that could have gone for 6 to Waller if he had half another second. He was even looking his way.

Instead people are complaining about the strip sack when he was looking for the homerun instead of an 8 yard checkdown.

The fact that the offense put up 34 points in the first 2 games with rookie WR is telling. If this offense is healthy, they can do some things. The defense on the other hand...

Speak for yourself with the “no one else agrees” thing homie. I think he has points that make sense. 

[roi34]

8 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

Is it smart to rush Ruggs back this week? I would hate to see him get hurt in a game we have a high probability of losing. Our bye is next week.... 

not sure the severity of it in first place. 

if it was tweak maybe last week was the week they waited extra and he's good to go. he tweeted the hour glass was empty. think he's ready.

[Humble_Beast]

5 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

At some point, when you have a contrarian take that no one seems to agree with (and yes we're all watching the same game), I think it's safe to ask yourself why no one else agrees.

I combed over the all 22 again. The defense was an embarrasment.

Carr played absolutely fine. He actually held the ball longer to get the ball downfield on chunk plays. There is no winning with some people. Gabe Jackson gets walked back into his lap on a play that could have gone for 6 to Waller if he had half another second. He was even looking his way.

Instead people are complaining about the strip sack when he was looking for the homerun instead of an 8 yard checkdown.

The fact that the offense put up 34 points in the first 2 games with rookie WR is telling. If this offense is healthy, they can do some things. The defense on the other hand...

So many people clueless on here. They just their narrative to be right so bad. Starve the Ego

[MrOaktown_56]

6 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Speak for yourself with the “no one else agrees” thing homie. I think he has points that make sense. 

You'd call Carr garbage? That was one of his main points. Verbatim.

Miss me with all this "it factor" bull**** that I'm now hearing. Or the fact that Carr and the Raiders offense have had anything to do with the defense's bad play, when if anything they've been keeping them fresh and off the field.

He's not Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers. You don't need that to win a football game. The fact that something like that is even being thrown around by fans shows me the Stockholm syndrome some have for this defense. It doesn't need to be this bad and an offense shouldn't have to score on every possession just to keep a team in the game.

 

[MrOaktown_56]

On 10/5/2020 at 12:30 PM, Jerry said:

For what its worth, Watson is on a 0-4 team with his "elite QB play" and Lamar Jackson was stomped by the Chief's defense.  Rodgers is playing on a team with a running game and a defense, Mahomes and Wilson are the best in the game, Mahomes has the best offense in the NFL.  You listed 5 QBs out of 32.  Regarding your Peyton Manning comment, he was benched that season, remember?  Flacco had a great playoff run on a team that got him there with their run game and defense.  Both those teams, the Broncos and the Ravens, were IMO, launched into the superbowl because two hall of famers were retiring.  Both of those defenses were going to carry Peyton Manning and Ray Lewis to the championship and win them those games.  Players play hard for hall of famers, always kind of noticed that.  Manning's limp noodle arm (at that time) had very little to do with that win in comparison to Von Miller's out of this world game he had against the Panthers. 

Either way, we need a better defense.  Defense should be addressed and built into a top 15 unit.  I don't get why our offense is harped on so hard when our defense might as well sit the game.

We aren't going to get a shot at an elite qb prospect anyways. Why not build the team and if Carr underperforms and you have a chance to leverage future assets for a potential hit at qb, do that. But by far rn, he is our best option to win and has flashed extremely high level of play with healthy weapons, which 90+% of the league needs to succeed.

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

You'd call Carr garbage? That was one of his main points. Verbatim.

Miss me with all this "it factor" bull**** that I'm now hearing. Or the fact that Carr and the Raiders offense have had anything to do with the defense's bad play, when if anything they've been keeping them fresh and off the field.

He's not Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers. You don't need that to win a football game. The fact that something like that is even being thrown around by fans shows me the Stockholm syndrome some have for this defense. It doesn't need to be this bad and an offense shouldn't have to score on every possession just to keep a team in the game.

 

Lol dude it’s a chat board and you’re a mod calm down. We’re not a defensive team. The highest paid player is Joyner that should tell you all you need to know about our commitment to the defense. But we make it rain to surround carr with the “perfect” team. Then you hate on the defense but as ny posted the d bailed the offense out after every fumble except 2. Nobody thinks the defense is great but even a great defense would only Guarantee us a 62% win rate or 9-7 record Under carr like ny posted. Carr balled first 2 weeks last 2 weeks not so much it is what it is. Carr history tells us he’s one big loss away from a season meltdown (last yr jets game). This kc game well tell us a lot then the bye week 

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Lol dude it’s a chat board and you’re a mod calm down. We’re not a defensive team. The highest paid player is Joyner that should tell you all you need to know about our commitment to the defense. But we make it rain to surround carr with the “perfect” team. Then you hate on the defense but as ny posted the d bailed the offense out after every fumble except 2. Nobody thinks the defense is great but even a great defense would only Guarantee us a 62% win rate or 9-7 record Under carr like ny posted. Carr balled first 2 weeks last 2 weeks not so much it is what it is. Carr history tells us he’s one big loss away from a season meltdown (last yr jets game). This kc game well tell us a lot then the bye week 

I'm calm.
But this "not a defensive team" is bs. Brees and the Saints "weren't a defensive team" and missed the playoffs for several years in a row despite an amazing offense. We are ranked average in defensive spending.

Look for yourself: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/defense/

I get that it isn't a top 5 defense, but that's no excuse to be bottom 5. 

You can point to the fumbles but how many takeaways has the defense produced? How often have they given the offense good field position? Substantially less than the league average, that's for sure.

We are 4th worst in points per drive and yards per drive. We are on pace for 8 interceptions this year. We are on pace for 16 sacks this year. That's a joke. Forget not being a "defensive team". The results should be a lot better than this.

Now on to Carr:

How is Carr surrounded by the perfect team right now? Not even close. 2 rookie WR (who I like) but they aren't even healthy. The OL is very banged up and the RB's can't run right now because of it.

I refuse to agree that he's played bad the last 2 weeks. I even combed over the all 22 and was honestly fine with the majority of his decisions, accuracy, etc. He could have been more aggressive. But he also tried to use his legs, extend plays, look downfield, etc. 

The reason we are losing games is the combination of not having a run game (not Jacob's fault either) and lacking the same threat at WR without Ruggs/Edwards/Tyrell. Can Carr play better? Of course. But I wouldn't cite him as the reason we are losing games. Or even top 3 reasons (defense, lack of run game, injuries).

Carr has lost games before. Miami comes to mind 2 years ago. Or the Dallas game 3 years ago. Or several others. But not these last 2.

[doctordeath]

17 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

At some point, when you have a contrarian take that no one seems to agree with (and yes we're all watching the same game), I think it's safe to ask yourself why no one else agrees.

I combed over the all 22 again. The defense was an embarrasment.

Carr played absolutely fine. He actually held the ball longer to get the ball downfield on chunk plays. There is no winning with some people. Gabe Jackson gets walked back into his lap on a play that could have gone for 6 to Waller if he had half another second. He was even looking his way.

Instead people are complaining about the strip sack when he was looking for the homerun instead of an 8 yard checkdown.

The fact that the offense put up 34 points in the first 2 games with rookie WR is telling. If this offense is healthy, they can do some things. The defense on the other hand...

You're right. I'm over this. As I'm sure the rest of the debaters are. @MrOaktown_56 @NYRaider @bitty @Darbsk @BackinBlack:

Y'all are right. I am right. Onto the Chiefs game.

Edited October 9, 2020 by doctordeath