Let's do this....Wilson vs Mahomes

[Jakuvious]

2 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

This is what tips it, for me.

Mahomes works with a better OL, a top 5 WR probably, the best or 2nd best TE in the league, freak RB

Wilson works with a shoddy OL, a decent WR corps, a nothing TE, standard RBs

The discrepancy isn't as large right now as you're making it out to be, IMO. Our OL has struggled thus far in pass pro. I think with how much Metcalf has stepped up, the WRs aren't actually terribly far apart, and you're underselling Carson. Kelce is the big asset Mahomes has that Wilson doesn't have a match for. That one I'll concede.

[Jakuvious]

To the actual question, you can't really go wrong with either. I think any given play/game/season, either could be slightly more elite than the other. This season so far, though, Wilson is absolutely outplaying Mahomes (and everyone else, for that matter.) Wilson is having his 2007 Tom Brady kind of season, right now. Weapons have improved, particularly in regards to deep passing, the offense has opened up schematically, and he's just absolutely dominating as a result.

[Nightime]

3 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

This is what tips it, for me.

Mahomes works with a better OL, a top 5 WR probably, the best or 2nd best TE in the league, freak RB

Wilson works with a shoddy OL, a decent WR corps, a nothing TE, standard RBs

Who is this “freak RB” that the Chiefs have? KC hasn’t had a better back than Chris Carson since Kareem Hunt, and he never played a 16 game season with Mahomes. 

Clyde Edwards Helaire has potential but he is not yet better than the underrated Chris Carson

And DK Metcalf would be the 2nd best WR on the Chiefs if he played for us today

Other than that it is a fair argument, but Russ isn’t exactly playing with rejects in 2020

Edited September 28, 2020 by Nightime

[patriotsheatyan]

Three great games for Wilson doesn’t undo a career.

Sorry, but no matter much people want to push it every season Wilson is not at the level of people like Mahomes, Prime Brady, Manning, or Rodgers.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

20 minutes ago, patriotsheatyan said:

Three great games for Wilson doesn’t undo a career.

Sorry, but no matter much people want to push it every season Wilson is not at the level of people like Mahomes, Prime Brady, Manning, or Rodgers.

Sorry to tell you this, but Wilson has been playing at this level nearly his entire career. The only reason you're noticing it this year is because their offensive philosophy has completely changed, which allows Wilson to actually make plays before the 4th quarter.

There's a reason "Let Russ Cook" became a thing.

[patriotsheatyan]

5 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Sorry to tell you this, but Wilson has been playing at this level nearly his entire career. The only reason you're noticing it this year is because their offensive philosophy has completely changed, which allows Wilson to actually make plays before the 4th quarter.

There's a reason "Let Russ Cook" became a thing.

Noticing what? Nothing is new. Wilson has had stretches with 10+ TDs before. You and the media promote the idea of that Wilson is a front runner for MVP during that stretch every year. Then he fades, an actual elite QB steps up and wins MVP with Wilson’s supporters forced to sit down and get ready for next years “It’s his turn” campaign. 

[Bearerofnews]

1 hour ago, patriotsheatyan said:

Noticing what? Nothing is new. Wilson has had stretches with 10+ TDs before. You and the media promote the idea of that Wilson is a front runner for MVP during that stretch every year. Then he fades, an actual elite QB steps up and wins MVP with Wilson’s supporters forced to sit down and get ready for next years “It’s his turn” campaign. 

Rk	Player	From	To	AV	G	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Rate	Lng	Int	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	NY/A	ANY/A	Att	Yds	TD	Y/A	Lng	Rec	Yds	TD	Y/R	Lng
1	Patrick Mahomes	2018	2020	39	32	25-7-0	753	1143	65.9	9641	81	109.6	89	17	45	319	8.4	9.18	7.85	8.57	109	544	4	5.0	28	0	0	0		0
2	Russell Wilson	2018	2020	29	35	24-11-0	700	1046	66.9	8483	80	112.0	66	13	108	730	8.1	9.08	6.72	7.60	156	808	3	5.2	40	1	-11	0	-11.0	0

 

Bad take chief. (No pun intended)

[evilpimp972]

6 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

Noticing what? Nothing is new. Wilson has had stretches with 10+ TDs before. You and the media promote the idea of that Wilson is a front runner for MVP during that stretch every year. Then he fades, an actual elite QB steps up and wins MVP with Wilson’s supporters forced to sit down and get ready for next years “It’s his turn” campaign. 

Only last year he was in the mvp convo and he faded because his team got banged up. 

[Archimedes]

I knew that we were going to see a bunch of knee jerk reactions in this thread based off Mahomes first 2 games and Wilson’s first three.

Mahomes played virtually all of last season on a bum ankle with injuries all throughout the OL and WR corps and still had arguably the best season in the league on a per game basis. When he was healthy and the playoffs came he was on a different level. The idea that if you swapped them places Russ would be doing what Mahomes is but Mahomes couldn’t do what Russ is laughable. Carroll is not some offensively inept clown being carried by Russ.

 

[evilflamingo]

Despite the Greased Weasel's many touchdowns to start the year, I still think it's Mahomes by a comfortable margin.

If you manage to get Wilson into a shootout, chances are high that you will come out on top. Since October 2017, Wilson is just 2-8 in games where he throws 36+ (i.e. above the league average) passes. As a reference, Mahomes is 14-5 under the same conditions.

And to hopefully avoid the "uRE juzst a HatTeeR!" comments, Wilson is one of the top qbs in the league and I am well aware of his stats to start the year, I just don't think he's the best. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

7 minutes ago, evilflamingo said:

Despite the Greased Weasel's many touchdowns to start the year, I still think it's Mahomes by a comfortable margin.

If you manage to get Wilson into a shootout, chances are high that you will come out on top. Since October 2017, Wilson is just 2-8 in games where he throws 36+ (i.e. above the league average) passes. As a reference, Mahomes is 14-5 under the same conditions.

And to hopefully avoid the "uRE juzst a HatTeeR!" comments, Wilson is one of the top qbs in the league and I am well aware of his stats to start the year, I just don't think he's the best. 

Two different offensive casts though. Wilson doesn't have to throw that many passes to beat you usually. And that doesn't take into account utilizing his legs. BTW, I'm not sure why 36 passes is officially deemed as "above league average"??? Where did you find that out? 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

3 hours ago, Archimedes said:

I knew that we were going to see a bunch of knee jerk reactions in this thread based off Mahomes first 2 games and Wilson’s first three.

Mahomes played virtually all of last season on a bum ankle with injuries all throughout the OL and WR corps and still had arguably the best season in the league on a per game basis. When he was healthy and the playoffs came he was on a different level. The idea that if you swapped them places Russ would be doing what Mahomes is but Mahomes couldn’t do what Russ is laughable. Carroll is not some offensively inept clown being carried by Russ.

 

Mahomes would still be good. He just wouldn't have the advantage of Reid at HC, the offensive system, and those weapons.  

Carroll obviously isn't an idiot, but he made his bones as a defensive minded coach. Darrell Bevel and Brian Schottenheimer aren't on Andy Reid's level as an offensive maestro. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by TecmoSuperJoe

[sammymvpknight]

At this moment? Wilson. But I’d still take Mahomes. I think Mahomes is the most talented QB ever...and the guy is going to be super elite indefinitely. 

[Archimedes]

19 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Mahomes would still be good. He just wouldn't have the advantage of Reid at HC, the offensive system, and those weapons.  

Carroll obviously isn't an idiot, but he made his bones as a defensive minded coach. Darrell Bevel and Brian Schottenheimer aren't on Andy Reid's level as an offensive maestro. 

Carroll and his staff aren’t on the offensive level of Reid and his staff, but they still do a very good (and often under appreciated) job of putting Russ in good positions to maximize his skill set.

Russ throws that deep pass outside the hash marks better than Mahomes and he’s more elusive, but Mahomes does a better job getting the ball out his hands quicker (Wilson takes a lot of sacks that are his fault), and can make off platform throws that Russ can’t.

People see Mecole Hardman wide open for his TD on MNF and talk about scheme, but that play doesn’t work if Mahomes doesn’t drift back in the pocket to buy more time and then put the ball out there on a dime with the ball traveling over 40 yards in the air, while the defense is bearing down on him. That’s more talent than scheme. I don’t think Wilson can make that play. In fact, there’s been only three guys I’ve ever seen who I think can make that play: Elway, Favre, and Rodgers.

That’s not a knock on Russ, who is amazing, but I just think there are more things Mahomes can do that Russ can’t than vise versa.

[Nightime]

1 hour ago, Archimedes said:

Carroll and his staff aren’t on the offensive level of Reid and his staff, but they still do a very good (and often under appreciated) job of putting Russ in good positions to maximize his skill set.

Russ throws that deep pass outside the hash marks better than Mahomes and he’s more elusive, but Mahomes does a better job getting the ball out his hands quicker (Wilson takes a lot of sacks that are his fault), and can make off platform throws that Russ can’t.

People see Mecole Hardman wide open for his TD on MNF and talk about scheme, but that play doesn’t work if Mahomes doesn’t drift back in the pocket to buy more time and then put the ball out there on a dime with the ball traveling over 40 yards in the air, while the defense is bearing down on him. That’s more talent than scheme. I don’t think Wilson can make that play. In fact, there’s been only three guys I’ve ever seen who I think can make that play: Elway, Favre, and Rodgers.

That’s not a knock on Russ, who is amazing, but I just think there are more things Mahomes can do that Russ can’t than vise versa.

I’m pretty sure Russ could make that Hardman touchdown, he’s made crazier ones already. 

But otherwise I agree