Let's do this....Wilson vs Mahomes

[iknowcool]

People are underrating the Seahawks weapons throughout Wilson's career.  I'll give you his OL hasn't been as good.  But the dude's had some really talented receivers.  He's usually gotten more production out of his RB too, not to mention the great defenses he's almost always had and the top-tier head coach.  

And I'm not saying this to take away from Russ.  Dude is amazing.  One of the best QBs I have ever seen.  But let's not act like he's been in some terrible situation.  The Seahawks built a great team around him.  Everyone keeps saying "what if you flipped the situations," but I don't see how that proves anything.  What if you put 2nd year 23 year old Mahomes in 2018 with the same defense 2nd year 25 year old Wilson had in 2013?  He probably wins the Super Bowl.  The fact is both guys benefited from getting drafted into a great situation.

Quite frankly all that would happen if you flipped situations, the same thing people are arguing for Wilson would be argued for Mahomes.  

I think Mahomes is better, but it's one of those things where it doesn't really matter who you choose.  I can see why people pick Russ.  For me, it's as simple as I come away more impressed watching Mahomes play.  

Edited September 29, 2020 by iknowcool

[MSURacerDT55]

Wilson by a hair, only because he will always make the best decision possible, I think there will be a point where Mahomes will be over confident in his abilities and make a critical error (somewhere down the line)

[Bearerofnews]

Wilson, due to level of difficulty. 

[evilflamingo]

5 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Two different offensive casts though. Wilson doesn't have to throw that many passes to beat you usually. And that doesn't take into account utilizing his legs. BTW, I'm not sure why 36 passes is officially deemed as "above league average"??? Where did you find that out? 

True. But historically, when he has needed to, he has come up short more often than not. No pun intended. 

It's deemed above league average because it is above league average as the average NFL game had 70 pass attempts last season. I'm sure you can find the same stats. 

[Archimedes]

6 hours ago, Nightime said:

I’m pretty sure Russ could make that Hardman touchdown, he’s made crazier ones already. 

But otherwise I agree

Idk. I just think that throw was absolutely insane. People see Hardman running wide open and how causally Mahomes makes that throw and don’t appreciate the level of arm talent it takes. This is not a knock on Wilson, who has a fantastically strong arm and otherworldly ball placement, but I don’t think he can make that throw. 
 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

2 hours ago, evilflamingo said:

True. But historically, when he has needed to, he has come up short more often than not. No pun intended. 

It's deemed above league average because it is above league average as the average NFL game had 70 pass attempts last season. I'm sure you can find the same stats. 

That's an extremely specific scenario though that doesn't really denote quality. You can probably find a certain combination of factors that make Wilson look unstoppable in the final two minutes, with a specific deficit or whatever. 

[BayRaider]

I’ve had Wilson as my #1 QB since 2018. Never had Mahomes #1. I’ve always said put Wilson with the Chiefs and Andy Reid and those weapons and let the guy cook. He would put up the same numbers. Russ’s arm is pretty dang good, and he has a higher football IQ than Mahomes. Honestly probably the highest football IQ with Brady and Rodgers. 
 

QB Rankings are not Statistical Power Rankings. They are whoever you think are the best QBs, and to rank them, you must hypothetically put them in similar situations. 
 

Russ is #1 for me. He finally has the weapons and destroying the NFL. And he still has no Reid and Mahomes has the advantage. Reid perhaps the offensive GOAT. Top 3 at least when it comes to offensive minds. 
 

For me it’s:

1) Wilson

2) Mahomes

Gap

3) Rodgers

4) Watson

No Specific Order 5-10: Brady, Ryan, Jackson, Brees, Ben, and Allen. 
 

Brees has had some arm issues this year but still having a solid season. Mind and accuracy still sharp as ever. 
 

Brady looked tremendous in Week 3, like his usual Top 5 QB self, and looked solid Week 2. Don’t forget first new team in 20 years and no pre season. His arm stength is still fully there. 

Watson is fantastic... Texans have done him dirty with BoB and no DHop. But Watson doesn’t need a top tier WR, just get rid of BoB. 

Once again, Rankings are not Statistical Power Rankings. They are whoever you think is the best when situations are the same. 

With all that said, I do think Wilson and Mahomes are far and away the two best QBs in the NFL. They are very very special football players. 
 

 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

I will say that up until 2019, Wilson would still have about three games a year where he would look more than a little off. Almost like he was a completely different player that didn't warrant being on the field. And this was all due to his own accord. I think those performances are why he never was able to get MVP or All Pro recognition. However, last year he didn't really have any of those super clunkers.

Mahomes on the other hand thus far, hasn't had a game where he's played abysmal from start to finish. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by TecmoSuperJoe

[Archimedes]

Wilson is getting the Elway benefit right now. I remember in the 80/90s, it didn’t matter what Marino/Montana did, there would always be people arguing Elway could definitely do better if he just had what they had...

Mahomes has lower football IQ, even though he takes less sacks. He’s somehow more inconsistent, even though the Chiefs have far fewer 3 and outs (a function of RW occasionally not seeing or not settling for the underneath play). I’m not even saying Russ isn’t amazing, but people are inventing weaknesses for Mahomes that don’t even exist.

Mahomes has literally had the greatest 2 year start to his career that we’ve ever seen  and people are assuming that Wilson can definitely match that. People are way too quick to take historical greatness for granted.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1 hour ago, Archimedes said:

Mahomes has literally had the greatest 2 year start to his career that we’ve ever seen  and people are assuming that Wilson can definitely match that. People are way too quick to take historical greatness for granted.

Mahomes didn't play his first year, and while he did have a historic second year, it rivaled Marino's sophmore season. Marino also played his first season. Greatest two year start to his career we've ever seen? Wouldn't necessarily agree. I know that's not the crux of your argument, and has nothing to do with Wilson, but just felt compelled to push back on that line of thinking a bit

Edited September 30, 2020 by TecmoSuperJoe

[rocky_rams]

3 hours ago, BayRaider said:

I’ve had Wilson as my #1 QB since 2018. Never had Mahomes #1. I’ve always said put Wilson with the Chiefs and Andy Reid and those weapons and let the guy cook. He would put up the same numbers. Russ’s arm is pretty dang good, and he has a higher football IQ than Mahomes. Honestly probably the highest football IQ with Brady and Rodgers. 
 

QB Rankings are not Statistical Power Rankings. They are whoever you think are the best QBs, and to rank them, you must hypothetically put them in similar situations. 
 

Russ is #1 for me. He finally has the weapons and destroying the NFL. And he still has no Reid and Mahomes has the advantage. Reid perhaps the offensive GOAT. Top 3 at least when it comes to offensive minds. 
 

For me it’s:

1) Wilson

2) Mahomes

Gap

3) Rodgers

4) Watson

No Specific Order 5-10: Brady, Ryan, Jackson, Brees, Ben, and Allen. 
 

Brees has had some arm issues this year but still having a solid season. Mind and accuracy still sharp as ever. 
 

Brady looked tremendous in Week 3, like his usual Top 5 QB self, and looked solid Week 2. Don’t forget first new team in 20 years and no pre season. His arm stength is still fully there. 

Watson is fantastic... Texans have done him dirty with BoB and no DHop. But Watson doesn’t need a top tier WR, just get rid of BoB. 

Once again, Rankings are not Statistical Power Rankings. They are whoever you think is the best when situations are the same. 

With all that said, I do think Wilson and Mahomes are far and away the two best QBs in the NFL. They are very very special football players. 
 

 

Get ready to add Goff to that list soon 

[BayRaider]

5 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

Get ready to add Goff to that list soon 

Would have to string together a tremendous season. 

[rocky_rams]

3 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Would have to string together a tremendous season. 

If he keeps up this trajectory then hes already on pace. He’s having a great season. Stats might not be as flashy but he’s doing a hell of a job. 

Even Goff and Rams haters such as PFF have him ranked as the third highest rated QB. Take that for what it’s worth. 

  

[Danger]

I'm gonna go with Wilson.

Very close, but Mahomes has the all time best QB whisperer, no doubt he's made use of his talents though.

[evilflamingo]

6 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

That's an extremely specific scenario though that doesn't really denote quality. You can probably find a certain combination of factors that make Wilson look unstoppable in the final two minutes, with a specific deficit or whatever. 

So passing more than the NFL average is "extremely specific" LOL? The facts are what they are. You'll have to continue grasping at straws without me 🤣