eagles18 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Also how can you put lamar in the top ten with his play this season when you factor in your logic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Biased_Fan Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) On 9/29/2020 at 8:13 PM, Archimedes said: Wilson is getting the Elway benefit right now. I remember in the 80/90s, it didn’t matter what Marino/Montana did, there would always be people arguing Elway could definitely do better if he just had what they had... Mahomes has lower football IQ, even though he takes less sacks. He’s somehow more inconsistent, even though the Chiefs have far fewer 3 and outs (a function of RW occasionally not seeing or not settling for the underneath play). I’m not even saying Russ isn’t amazing, but people are inventing weaknesses for Mahomes that don’t even exist. Mahomes has literally had the greatest 2 year start to his career that we’ve ever seen and people are assuming that Wilson can definitely match that. People are way too quick to take historical greatness for granted. Well it's context. Mahomes got to sit a year, and then started his career with elite offensive weapons and in Andy Reid's offense. Wilson starts his career with subpar offensive weaponry (except for Beast) and in Darrell Bevell's...um, system. That's a huge gap in the situations they were both in. Now that the gap in weaponry is close and now that Shottenheimer has replaced Bevell, Russell is putting up MVP caliber stats. It's not out of bounds to entertain the idea that Russ could have put up Mahomes like numbers in that situation. Not a guarantee, but it's not something that can be laughed off. And Elway did start to put up way better stats with better weapons and a better offensive system. Edited October 21, 2020 by A_Biased_Fan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilflamingo Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 On 10/21/2020 at 11:35 PM, A_Biased_Fan said: Well it's context. Mahomes got to sit a year, and then started his career with elite offensive weapons and in Andy Reid's offense. Wilson starts his career with subpar offensive weaponry (except for Beast) and in Darrell Bevell's...um, system. That's a huge gap in the situations they were both in. Now that the gap in weaponry is close and now that Shottenheimer has replaced Bevell, Russell is putting up MVP caliber stats. It's not out of bounds to entertain the idea that Russ could have put up Mahomes like numbers in that situation. Not a guarantee, but it's not something that can be laughed off. And Elway did start to put up way better stats with better weapons and a better offensive system. While talking about context, Russel Wilson is also almost 32, while Mahomes just turned 25. By the age Wilson came into the league, Mahomes already had a 50 TD/5000 yard, MVP Season to his name, something Wilson still hasn't come close to. So yeah, I'm gonna laugh off the idea that Russel replicates what Mahomes has done coming into the league and straight out dominating in his first year as a starter/second year in the league. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, evilflamingo said: While talking about context, Russel Wilson is also almost 32, while Mahomes just turned 25. By the age Wilson came into the league, Mahomes already had a 50 TD/5000 yard, MVP Season to his name, something Wilson still hasn't come close to. So yeah, I'm gonna laugh off the idea that Russel replicates what Mahomes has done coming into the league and straight out dominating in his first year as a starter/second year in the league. I really think people are just over-correcting on Wilson now. I felt like he was pretty underrated his first 5/6 years. Now however, people have swung the pendulum too far in the other direction and are acting like he came into the league as this generational talent who turned around a mediocre franchise. Early in his career, RW had solid receiving weapons, an elite running back, and a generational defense. He was good, but he was absolutely not as good as Mahomes at the same point in his career. I’m much more sure that second year Mahomes could have won a SB with Seattle than third year RW could have won with KC. Edited October 28, 2020 by Archimedes 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Not reading this whole thread I just know one guy has andy reid at the helm and one guy has brian Shotty you remember him right from the sanchez days? He still looks like an MVP candidate every year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 I said Wilson was QB1 this offseason and I'm sticking to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Wilson is asked to make much more difficult throws more consistently. His level of difficulty is just higher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asciimo Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 8 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: Wilson is asked to make much more difficult throws more consistently. His level of difficulty is just higher. true. KC offense is stacked. wilson runs around for his life regularly. mahomes has reid. gimme Wilson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Thanks for the "can't call it" option. I mean, this is a good and tough question. I'd give slight edge to Mahomes because he is younger, and he will have more time to achieve more. But, if you asked me which one would you start your team with??????? My answer would, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greene N White Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 This is mahomes’ league no other way around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriotsheatyan Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Still Mahomes by a big margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Both QBs are amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 18 minutes ago, Chiefer said: Both QBs are amazing They are, but I’m becoming less inclined to consider that Russ is Mahomes’ equal (and certainly not better). He’s regressing back to his typical level, which is still elite, but not transcendent, ala the level of prime Rodgers or current Mahomes. It’s reminiscent of the spot Brees occupied behind Brady and Manning when they were all on top of the league together. As an aside, people may have been too quick to write off Rodgers. I thought people underrated the season he had last year, and I think he’s moved ahead of Russ in the MVP race this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Archimedes said: They are, but I’m becoming less inclined to consider that Russ is Mahomes’ equal (and certainly not better). He’s regressing back to his typical level, which is still elite, but not transcendent, ala the level of prime Rodgers or current Mahomes. It’s reminiscent of the spot Brees occupied behind Brady and Manning when they were all on top of the league together. As an aside, people may have been too quick to write off Rodgers. I thought people underrated the season he had last year, and I think he’s moved ahead of Russ in the MVP race this year. No he's not lol his typical level is NEVER "10 turnovers in 4 games". In two of those 4 games he's posted a sub-100 passer rating when his career average is above 100. Wilson has 8 INT's this year already, and his career-high is 11 (2016 and 2017). What he's doing right now is pressing, presumably because he knows he has to do more because of how historically bad his defense is, and as a result he's making bone-headed plays. This is not the MVP Russell Wilson that we're accustomed to watching - this is 2017 "I have to literally do everything" Russell Wilson, and it's biting him big time. Also, I have a hard time believing that if Mahomes was in this same situation (your defense is historically bad and you have no offensive line), he wouldn't be doing the same thing Wilson is. Edited November 16, 2020 by AFlaccoSeagulls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: No he's not lol his typical level is NEVER "10 turnovers in 4 games". In two of those 4 games he's posted a sub-100 passer rating when his career average is above 100. Wilson has 8 INT's this year already, and his career-high is 11 (2016 and 2017). What he's doing right now is pressing, presumably because he knows he has to do more because of how historically bad his defense is, and as a result he's making bone-headed plays. This is not the MVP Russell Wilson that we're accustomed to watching - this is 2017 "I have to literally do everything" Russell Wilson, and it's biting him big time. Also, I have a hard time believing that if Mahomes was in this same situation (your defense is historically bad and you have no offensive line), he wouldn't be doing the same thing Wilson is. Don’t be dense. His typical level as in where he sits statistically overall for the season. I called him elite. I compared him to a HOFer (Brees), obviously I didn’t mean his typical level was 10 turnovers in 4 games. Slinging the ball all over the field isn’t Wilson’s game. He’s not Mahomes. He’s not Rodgers. He thrives in run heavy offenses when he’s able to then use his deep ball to burn the defense when they start worrying about the run game. He’s never established himself as being able to maintain an elite level play over the course of a season in a pass heavy offense as Mahomes or Rodgers. His Oline isn’t nearly as bad as you’re trying to make it out to be. That’s just absurd narrative speak. He legitimately has issues with holding the ball too long. And Mahomes HAS had to prop up a historically bad defense... You know, in his first ever year as a starter. Where he lost two games where his team put up 40 and 50 points. People like you just keep making excuses for Wilson and that’s fine. He’s fantastic. He’ll bounce back. He’ll have a great season overall when the dust settles. But as some point it becomes hard to ignore the evidence in front of you. He’s not the transcendent talent you want him to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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