Is Alvin Kamara the best Running Back in the NFL? (Part 2)

[SmittyBacall]

5 hours ago, tyler735 said:

How so?

He is a freakish combo of size and speed that has been producing at a great level running the ball...Even if he doesn't provide much versatility out of the backfield. He is the type of RB a team would want late in the season when the weather gets cold and makes it unpleasant to tackle a guy like him for 4 quarters with the physicality he brings to the game. Can see guys in the secondary at times are a bit timid to go in for the tackle on him.

For two reasons, mainly. One, for the reason you just stated; he doesn’t offer much at all as a receiver, which is important in todays NFL. And two, he strikes me as a runner who is more dependent on competent blocking than his peers, and struggles to create his own yards. He’s great (and most effective) when he’s galloping through paved running lanes with a head of steam. But when the blocking isn’t there his effectiveness falls off a cliff. He’s not a guy like Mixon, Kamara, or Barkley, that can slip a tackle in the back field, reverse field, and pick up positive yardage. If it ain’t there, he ain’t mustering much; which also ties into the first part.

He’s on that second tier with Chubb, Mixon, Jones, Cook, etc. He shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as Kamara, Barkley, or McCaffery IMO. 

[SmittyBacall]

4 hours ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

He ran for like 1200 yards on 6+ Y/C in an 8 game stretch last season. You don’t get the hype!? 

Nobody seems to puts him in conversation as best back despite his top tier production since Tannehill so I don’t really see the argument for him being overrated either.

Fair, but his line deserves a lot of credit for those numbers. They absolutely mauled every front 7 they lined up against. 

[tyler735]

32 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

For two reasons, mainly. One, for the reason you just stated; he doesn’t offer much at all as a receiver, which is important in todays NFL. And two, he strikes me as a runner who is more dependent on competent blocking than his peers, and struggles to create his own yards. He’s great (and most effective) when he’s galloping through paved running lanes with a head of steam. But when the blocking isn’t there his effectiveness falls off a cliff. He’s not a guy like Mixon, Kamara, or Barkley, that can slip a tackle in the back field, reverse field, and pick up positive yardage. If it ain’t there, he ain’t mustering much; which also ties into the first part.

He’s on that second tier with Chubb, Mixon, Jones, Cook, etc. He shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as Kamara, Barkley, or McCaffery IMO. 

Yeah that's fair. I tend to view him in that range with those RB's as well

[RandyMossIsBoss]

55 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Fair, but his line deserves a lot of credit for those numbers. They absolutely mauled every front 7 they lined up against. 

Goes without saying, OL doing their job and winning up front is a perquisite for success in the run game, but to put up the kind of numbers Henry did you have to be dominating the second level. He's bigger than the linebackers trying to tackle him and faster than the DBs trying to chase him down. 

He had a league best 968 yards after contact in 2019, which gives him 3.2 yards after contact per carry. Only Henry, Damien Williams, Chubb and Fournette had 3 or more yards after contact per carry... and keep in mind these aren't including his 446 yards in the playoffs, which is what really elevated his status. You've got to be something of a talent to be the 1st RB to post back to back 180+ yard games in the postseason. 

Pass catching is of course a huge factor in modern game, and he is lacking there, so I have no issue seeing you or anyone have him in their 2nd tier, but he definitely brings talents to the table as a runner we haven't seen, at least not in awhile, which makes him very fun to watch.

[SmittyBacall]

1 hour ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

Goes without saying, OL doing their job and winning up front is a perquisite for success in the run game, but to put up the kind of numbers Henry did you have to be dominating the second level.

There’s having an offensive line that “does their job”, and then there’s having an offensive line that dominates. Tennessee’s line was the latter last year. Not so much this year, which is reflected by his YPC.

[RandyMossIsBoss]

1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said:

There’s having an offensive line that “does their job”, and then there’s having an offensive line that dominates. Tennessee’s line was the latter last year. Not so much this year, which is reflected by his YPC.

Ok, then I’ll rephrase it, any running back short of Barry Sanders putting up great numbers is going to have an offensive line that is dominating (aka getting them to 2nd level more often that not), it goes without saying and is pointless to bring up unless we’re comparing RBs w/ similar numbers and want to say 1 OL was much better than other... but we’re talking numbers with no comparison in NFL history, so it feels disingenuous to even bring up the OL here other than to try and take credit from Henry... but yes, Titans run blocking was great in 2019 and still looks pretty strong.

[tyler735]

Here's an interesting read about Kamara's dominating performances to start the season

https://www.si.com/nfl/saints/editorial-opinion/kamaralytics-alvin-kamara-analytics-hot-start

[GamedayGuru]

Kamara keeps playing like this and the answer is yes. Dominating the league in yards from scrimmage and touchdowns 

[SBLIII]

Remember the creator of this legendary Kamara hive!

 

 

 

[MookieMonstah]

Personally if I'm starting an NFL team tomorrow I'm taking one of CMC, Barkley, Kamara. Everyone else a clear step behind.

[Raves]

30 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

Personally if I'm starting an NFL team tomorrow I'm taking one of CMC, Barkley, Kamara. Everyone else a clear step behind.

As first RB, not first player right?  Pretty sure QB would be first off teh board and then a debate could be made for a few dominant players at other positions.  But I would take those 3 over any offensive skill position though.

[TitanSlim]

As of this moment, my top 10 would be...

1.McCaffrey

2.Barkley

3.Cook

4.Zeke

5.Kamara

6.Henry

7.Chubb

8.A.Jones

9.Mixon

10.Jacobs

HM: Kareem Hunt

The RB group is quietly pretty elite right now. Guys with different strengths and styles. You could arrange the top 10 in a completely different order and I wouldn’t have too much to complain about.

[Raves]

1 minute ago, TitanSlim said:

As of this moment, my top 10 would be...

1.McCaffrey

2.Barkley

3.Cook

4.Zeke

5.Kamara

6.Henry

7.Chubb

8.A.Jones

9.Mixon

10.Jacobs

HM: Kareem Hunt

The RB group is quietly pretty elite right now. Guys with different strengths and styles. You could arrange the top 10 in a completely different order and I wouldn’t have too much to complain about.

I think having Kamara out of the top 3 is a mistake.  The top 3 RBs are both huge threats both running the ball and in the passing game when healthy while the rest of the top 10 are typically dominant mostly running the ball with their threat in the passing game is more of "oh yeah he can catch some swing passes and screens."

[TitanSlim]

23 minutes ago, Raves said:

I think having Kamara out of the top 3 is a mistake.  The top 3 RBs are both huge threats both running the ball and in the passing game when healthy while the rest of the top 10 are typically dominant mostly running the ball with their threat in the passing game is more of "oh yeah he can catch some swing passes and screens."

You’re probably right. As great as a receiver that Kamara is, I’m honestly probably underrating his rushing ability. I think you could break the RBs down into 3 different categories.

Elite Dual Threats(Can beat you rushing and receiving game in,game out)-CMC, Barkley, Kamara

Dual Threats(Not as much a receiving threat as above but still can hurt you there)-Zeke, Cook, A. Jones

Pure/Workhorse(Not known for their receiving skills but are elite rushers)-Henry, Chubb, Mixon, Jacobs

Edited October 5, 2020 by TitanSlim

[Raves]

10 minutes ago, TitanSlim said:

You’re probably right. As great as a receiver that Kamara is, I’m honestly probably underrating his rushing ability. I think you could break the RBs down into 3 different categories.

Elite Dual Threats(Can beat you rushing and receiving game in,game out)-CMC, Barkley, Kamara

Dual Threats(Not as much a receiving threat as above but still can hurt you there)-Zeke, Cook, A. Jones

Pure/Workhorse(Not known for their receiving skills but are elite rushers)-Henry, Chubb, Mixon, Jacobs

That's how I see it.  I think outside of exceptional play by a lower category or less than great play by a higher category I would rank them based on their categories with the rankings within the categories being flexible.  Obviously I could see people putting players like Henry and Chubb above A. Jones as they are just exceptional players and Jones is more of a just really good Dual Threat.

Kind of like Shaun Alexander, LDT, Priest Holmes, etc debates.  Consistently I would've put LDT above the other 2, but there were those seasons where Holmes and Alexander were just so dominant that you put them over the dual threat.