Is Alvin Kamara the best Running Back in the NFL? (Part 2)

[sammymvpknight]

2 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Runs as in vision, breaking tackles, producing yards, producing touchdowns? Come on, now.

Stats regarding whatever rushing stat you'd like to bring up, pretty much. So now can you answer my question?

Vision...based on what? Tell me exactly how you know that Henry has better vision. Seems like an assumption. Breaking tackles? Nice theory...wrong but nice effort. Kamara breaks significantly more tackles per touch. Henry 11.3 versus Kamara 7.7 touches/broken tackle. Producing yards? Shouldn’t a player who gets more touches get more yards? If your argument is rushing yardage and efficiency...you get one point...he does have a higher YPC this season. Producing TDs? Shouldn’t someone with over a 100 more touches have more TDs? They should...but in the case of Henry, he didn’t. Henry had 5 fewer TDs. 

Are we really going to just disregard contributions in the passing game? Kamara is an elite pass blocker. Don’t assume that Henry is better because he’s bigger. Henry is useless as a receiver...Kamara is one of the best ever. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by sammymvpknight

[tyler735]

On 1/13/2021 at 11:01 AM, tyler735 said:

A little side by side comparison of Kamara and Henry this season.

 

Yards per game:

Kamara- 113 yards per game (Including post season game 113 yards per game)

Henry- 133 yards per game (Including post season game 129 yards per game)

 

Touchdowns:

Kamara- 21 touchdowns (22 touchdowns including post season game)

1.4 touchdowns per game regular season. 1.4 touchdowns per game including post season

 

Henry- 17 touchdowns (17 touchdowns including post season game)

1.1 touchdowns per game regular season. 1.0 touchdowns per game including post season

 

Total Touches:

Kamara- 270 total touches (295 touches including postseason game)

Henry- 397 total touches (418 total touches including post season game)

 

Touches per game:

Kamara- 18 touches per game (18 touches per game including post season)

Henry- 25 touches per game (25 touches per game including post season)

 

Henry averages about 15 to 20 more yards per game on 7 more touches per game this season.

 

Total Broken Tackles:

Kamara- 19 broken tackles rushing, 16 broken tackles receiving, 35 total broken tackles

Henry- 34 broken tackles rushing, 1 broken tackle receiving, 35 total broken tackles

 

Broken Tackle Efficiency:

Kamara- 9.8 rush attempts per broken tackle. 5.2 receptions per broken tackle

Henry- 11.1 attempts per broken tackle. 19.0 receptions per broken tackle

*Only have regular season data for broken tackles stats on Pro Football Reference*

 

Henry has a slight advantage in rushing efficiency stats such as YPC, average yards after contact

Kamara has huge advantage in just about any receiving metric.

 

For me this seems close enough in many key areas that arguments can be made for either.

Gonna repost this.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, sammymvpknight said:

Vision...based on what? Tell me exactly how you know that Henry has better vision. Seems like an assumption. Breaking tackles? Nice theory...wrong but nice effort. Kamara breaks significantly more tackles per touch. Henry 11.3 versus Kamara 7.7 touches/broken tackle. Producing yards? Shouldn’t a player who gets more touches get more yards? If your argument is rushing yardage and efficiency...you get one point...he does have a higher YPC this season. Producing TDs? Shouldn’t someone with over a 100 more touches have more TDs? They should...but in the case of Henry, he didn’t. Henry had 5 fewer TDs. 

Are we really going to just disregard contributions in the passing game? Kamara is an elite pass blocker. Don’t assume that Henry is better because he’s bigger. Henry is useless as a receiver...Kamara is one of the best ever. 

So deducing this, you're saying Kamara is not only a better receiver (not debated by anyone), but also a better runner in terms of efficiency, and that Henry is regarded as better only because he has the volume stats behind it?

[sammymvpknight]

26 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

So deducing this, you're saying Kamara is not only a better receiver (not debated by anyone), but also a better runner in terms of efficiency, and that Henry is regarded as better only because he has the volume stats behind it?

No...Henry was a more efficient runner this year. He was excellent. But he’s not better at every aspect of the running game. Kamara has unbelievable acceleration and contact balance. 

[dtait93]

Kamara has the versatility, but he's no OPOY

[Raves]

On 1/18/2021 at 4:44 PM, dtait93 said:

Where the rubber seems to meet the road is if Kamara's receiving ability after accounting for his ground game outweighs Henry's ability on the ground. So a question I have is this:

Is the QB more important to Kamara's production through the air? Or is the o-line more important to Henry's production on the ground?

Because what's even more impressive about Henry's 2k season is the fact that he did it with a 3rd string LT and career back up at RT. And in all honesty, he probably could have broken the all-time rushing record if Lewan never went down and we didn't lose Conklin to FA. But as the saying goes...if if's and but's were beers and nuts we could all have a party.

The problem with this argument is that even though you make these claims about the OL, they were still pretty good at run blocking.  Pretty sure if someone has the advanced stats from PFF etc it'd show that in their rankings.  Also the Saints OL had been hit with injuries throughout the year with players missing games and moved around as well.  Honestly the only difference in choosing whether Kamara or Henry is better seems to be what you want from a "RB."  If you are wanting someone to just carry it 20-30 times a game wearing down the opponents and breaking off a few big runs when they open up, Henry is your guy.  If you want someone that creates a lot of mismatches based on where they are lined up and what personnel is on the field causing defenses to make more mistakes, then Kamara is who you want.  Henry is great for Tennessee as they don't have a QB that can take advantage of bad defensive decisions, Kamara is great for the Saints because Brees has been able to do that.  We'll see how that continues when Winston takes over as the starting QB next year, though I think Kamara will only have his stat line improve since teams can't just hope that Brees won't be/can't take shots deep.

[ifeelasleep]

saints fans, im a fan of kamara and his balance and general game, i think he's the best rb in the league. 

with the way offenses are run now do you think reggie bush couldve had comparable numbers if he was coming out today? 

or is it that the saints offense needs kamara to run this way.

Edited January 23, 2021 by ifeelasleep

[Jlowe22]

5 hours ago, ifeelasleep said:

saints fans, im a fan of kamara and his balance and general game, i think he's the best rb in the league. 

with the way offenses are run now do you think reggie bush couldve had comparable numbers if he was coming out today? 

or is it that the saints offense needs kamara to run this way.

Nah, Bush had his moments, but consistency wasn’t there.  Saints ran more of a committee back then, but even still Bush was short of spectacular.  
 

When I think of Reggie, I think of a guy dancing around for ten seconds only to lose 5 yards.  When it worked though, he did bust some incredible runs.  See 09 playoff game vs Cardinals.