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Horse Collar That Isnt and Officiating


dll2000

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9 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

No, it isn’t a penalty. And this is possibly the greatest exaggeration I’ve ever read on FF.

How... Josh was running the opposite direction as Donald and was yanked backwards... so hard that the ball didnt come with him. It was like whiplash

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6 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

How... Josh was running the opposite direction as Donald and was yanked backwards... so hard that the ball didnt come with him. It was like whiplash

Let me just clarify because I didn’t catch the game till the very end: please tell me this isn’t the play you’re talking about?

 

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1 hour ago, Kmart128 said:

Did anyone see Aaron Donald and the strip sack of Allen? Donald grabbed Josh in horse collar as he stepped up into the pocket and yanked him down. And Josh got up complaining to refs that cost him a unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. The annoucers said if a QB is in the pocket there is no horse collar penalty. Is this true?

If so Josh Allen has every right to be upset. That is an extremely dangerous and dirty play. Even if it is legal its dirty and there is no place for it in this game. Could have broke Josh Allens neck. The NFL really has to look into that. For a league that is supposed to be for player safety they didnt do a good job protecting a player in that circumstance. Especially a QB.

The reason it's legal in the pocket is because you don't normally have the motion and momentum that leads to it being so dangerous. It isn't dangerous because it's going to hurt someone's neck, it's dangerous because of what it can do to a player's legs. It's when you have a runner running away from a defender, they get pulled back, and their legs get caught under them. Can lead to serious lower body injuries. It's legal in the pocket because that risk isn't there with a relatively stationary QB. I don't know how you think that tackle could've possibly broken his neck.

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On 9/28/2020 at 8:12 AM, dll2000 said:

Did they just expand the horse collar rule this year to back of jersey?

I don’t remember this being a thing before.  But the calls on it are awful when they get it ‘right’ and horrendous when they get it wrong.     I don’t care if it helps my team or hurts my team.

It is bad for the game.  Go back to hand must be inside shoulder pads of neck for it to be a foul and make it reviewable.

That is my biggest beef.    But I don’t blame officials for that.  That is an awful rule.   

But the officiating has been awful.  The calls that are being made are wrong and the no calls are just as bad and enforced unevenly.

I hate lots of flags, but a penalty is a penalty.  Why are we not calling holding this year?   I know that came from above.  The shift is too huge. 

   Some DBs can bang all the way down the field and others can’t touch anyone.  Sometimes a pick is illegal and sometimes it is fine.

Why are we calling pass interference on uncatchable balls?  

Why are we calling roughing that isn’t roughing? (That has been a problem for awhile now).

Why are we giving out fines for legal hits?  

These 15 yard penalties change games.  Even one can make a difference.  But one is acceptable.  One is human error.  Maybe two.  

There are 5 major bad calls in a game now.  And not evenly distributed.  I don’t think they hate any one team or love any one team.  But they are giving wins and handing out loses with calls.   

With explosion of gambling one might get suspicious..  

 

 

 

What's probably worse is the contact to the QB's head by an defensive linemen trying to block his pass....What's a defender supposed to do?...A slight grazing to the helmet is automatically a personal foul, which is ridiculous...

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11 hours ago, 40Year Pack Fan said:

What's probably worse is the contact to the QB's head by an defensive linemen trying to block his pass....What's a defender supposed to do?...A slight grazing to the helmet is automatically a personal foul, which is ridiculous...

I think they have eased up on that a bit. 

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The biggest problem with replay is that we at home can typically see what happened within 20 seconds after it happened. That means the league office can, too.

I think the challenge flag should go up to the league office who've already seen it on replay 2-3 times before the officials have to look at the monitor. I wouldn't mind them stepping in and overruling an obvious bad call that went unchallenged, too.

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On 9/29/2020 at 10:21 AM, Coffee & Contemplation said:

The point of the rule is to protect players against being pulled back with their own legs underneath them, which is usually done in the typical by-the-book horse collar way.

I don't blame refs for calling it when they can just see a player pulled down in that way. They can't always see a hand in the collar, but if they see a player being brought down in a dangerous way that's typically a sign that it has happened. It's rare that a player gets pulled down with their legs under them and the player wasn't technically horse collared. The Packers/Saints game was obviously a mistake by the letter of the rule, but it's easy to see why the ref thought he saw a horse collar.

It's not a rule that needs to go away though. It's a reckless and dangerous way to tackle a ball carrier. We don't want guys heading into Super Bowls with broken legs. That is not worth the rare penalty incurred by teams where it wasn't technically a horse collar, but it looked like one.

Chasing someone from behind you reach out grab them from behind.  The way they have called it is grabbing any part of jersey from behind.

  Outlawing that is a ridiculous limitation that flies in face of decades of normal tackles.  

Saying you can't reach into collar is acceptable because that gives you a handle to yank.

Any part of back of jersey at refs whim is crazy.  And that is way it is being called at moment.  I have seen it at least 3x this season all bad calls.  You don't want to be grabbed from behind by jersey tailor your jersey better and stop wearing ridiculous pony tails/braids all down your back.

Just bring it back to inside the collar.   That was working fine.    

 

 

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On 9/29/2020 at 9:37 AM, THE DUKE said:

Get rid of the rule and say goodbye to about 25% of the skill player stars each year to acl injuries.  That's why it's a rule.

Name 5 players not named Terrell Owens in the history of football(college, CFL, NFL or Arena) significantly injured from horse collar tackles

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12 minutes ago, LuckIsGOAT said:

Name 5 players not named Terrell Owens in the history of football(college, CFL, NFL or Arena) significantly injured from horse collar tackles

Mostly because it doesn’t happen that often.   If more players did it the way Roy Williams was trademarking it,  you would have this list and more

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On 9/28/2020 at 7:12 AM, dll2000 said:

There are 5 major bad calls in a game now.  And not evenly distributed.  I don’t think they hate any one team or love any one team.  But they are giving wins and handing out loses with calls.   

I've sadly only been able to catch a few other games besides those involving the Bears, and I didn't notice the officiating being as bad in any of the other ones. If it's really that widespread, that's pretty damn concerning. 

In the the last Bears game that whole officiating kerfuffle around the fumble-that-wasn't was just about the worst officiating gaffe I've ever seen. On second thought, it might BE the worst. 

Maybe the lack of pre-season has affected the refs? I don't get why we haven't seen more outrage from the coaches. If there are a lot of other games that have been as poorly officiated as the Bears' three contests, then something needs to be done. 

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1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

In the the last Bears game that whole officiating kerfuffle around the fumble-that-wasn't was just about the worst officiating gaffe I've ever seen. On second thought, it might BE the worst. 

I still maintain that Browns/Skins fumble the worst I’ve seen in the last decade or so. @HTTRDynasty probably has it.

 

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