G08 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 6 hours ago, WindyCity said: There is a decent chance we are drafting to low to land a QB without a major trade up. 2021 of ride or die with Foles may be enough for me to watch other games. This offense was painfully boring to watch last week. If this is who we are going to be, I just might join you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 6 hours ago, WindyCity said: There is a decent chance we are drafting to low to land a QB without a major trade up. 2021 of ride or die with Foles may be enough for me to watch other games. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers seem exciting enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 48 minutes ago, G08 said: This offense was painfully boring to watch last week. If this is who we are going to be, I just might join you. Last week? It's been like this ever since Trestman left. No imagination, no plan or purpose, no nothing. How does this even happen with a supposed offensive mastermind and QB guru who was hailed as one of the best head coaching candidates that Andy Reid ever had on his staff according to his own words? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Last week? It's been like this ever since Trestman left. No imagination, no plan or purpose, no nothing. How does this even happen with a supposed offensive mastermind and QB guru who was hailed as one of the best head coaching candidates that Andy Reid ever had on his staff according to his own words? It's Chicago. I have no other logical reason other than this is Chicago and we are ******* cursed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Last week? It's been like this ever since Trestman left. No imagination, no plan or purpose, no nothing. How does this even happen with a supposed offensive mastermind and QB guru who was hailed as one of the best head coaching candidates that Andy Reid ever had on his staff according to his own words? To be fair, Trestman's second year the offense fell of a cliff too... People figured him out, and I don't think he even had success as an OC after that. I'd add, our OL has been a downright liability for years at this point. Leno has always been a complete bum. Massie used to be good at the running game at least but even that he's been "eh" at for a while..... Whitehair only looked dominant when he healthy Kyle Long and a stud Slauson next to him.... I'm not at all sold on him going forward. Daniels was decent this year, but injured. Frankly, I think I'm rather over the whole "zone scheme, "finesse" blocker types they keep trying to draft.... because they've all largely sucked hard at the whole technical side of the game. Give me some damn maulers. I want gigantic mean dudes who are going to go out manhandle their little brothers on the defensive side of the ball and knock them on their butts.. I'm just tired of the last decade where I can't trust the team to convert 3rd and 1 up the middle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Epyon said: Frankly, I think I'm rather over the whole "zone scheme, "finesse" blocker types they keep trying to draft.... because they've all largely sucked hard at the whole technical side of the game. Give me some damn maulers. I want gigantic mean dudes who are going to go out manhandle their little brothers on the defensive side of the ball and knock them on their butts.. I'm just tired of the last decade where I can't trust the team to convert 3rd and 1 up the middle. I've been against people who fit that label since we got Chris Williams, but for a different reason. @dll2000 has mentioned here more than anyone how DL is more athletic than OL, which is why he wants a pipeline to develop those big DL into OL. Very much like how I constantly repeat how I want to draft nothing but OTs and plug them wherever on the OL (elite guys like Nelson being the rare exceptions). The problem with them is that"finesse" OL often rely on their athleticism more than anything. That is why they suck, you're not going to have more than a handful of elite OTs that can actually be as athletic as above average DL. Even the most athletic OL are often inferior to the majority of DL athletically, so your best trait is still below the people you regularly will be up against. OL have to rely on technique and strength to beat their man. With a mauler you have at least one of those as a (usual) constant advantage. Technique is something that should be taught to them and drilled religiously, but your top end strength can only be so high genetically. Daniels bulked up and looked stronger when he was blocking this year, but he will NEVER be able to out muscle Orlando Brown. OL's jobs are generally within 5 yards of where they start. They make pockets around the QB, they hit guys that are right in front of them or cutting off guys that are within 5 yards of them. Yes there are screens and such that will break the 5 yard rule, but that is not as common as you'd would think. Even then if they are mobile enough to get out there the RB just needs to read their blocks and cut behind them. Having uber-athletic guys is neat because of the versatility you have with their potential assignments. More outside reads, pulling, sweeps, etc that they can execute and potentially make a massive hole for the RB to scamper through, but at the end of the day execution is the big thing for either. I believe having the advantage in strength and length helps the execution more often than not. Edited October 30, 2020 by Sugashane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 9 hours ago, topwop1 said: Last week? It's been like this ever since Trestman left. No imagination, no plan or purpose, no nothing. How does this even happen with a supposed offensive mastermind and QB guru who was hailed as one of the best head coaching candidates that Andy Reid ever had on his staff according to his own words? 1. Drafting the wrong QB. 2. Not investing enough in the OL. It's pretty simple. If you have neither a good QB nor a good OL, you won't have a good offense. And the OL and QB problems pre-date Matt Nagy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I have watched like one exciting offensive year in the last 15 years. It is starting to get grating. I am not even asking for explosive or dynamic, I am asking for competent top 16 scoring offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 2 hours ago, abstract_thought said: 1. Drafting the wrong QB. 2. Not investing enough in the OL. It's pretty simple. If you have neither a good QB nor a good OL, you won't have a good offense. And the OL and QB problems pre-date Matt Nagy. Right, but again and I'll stress this 1000 times over, he is an offensive head coach so he should have pushed for more/or better investments in the OL & QB if he knew they were crappy instead of thinking his buddies Castillo, Lazor and Flip would just magically fix things. The fact that he was fine with these units heading into his 3rd season tells me that he has a high ego and believes in his coaching more than talent. Well newsflash, his coaching hasn't been working with this offense. They stink all around. There's no excuses at this point. The first couple years ok sure but 3 seasons in now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I'm not sure what I think of Mac Jones... I just don't think he has the arm strength to be a successful NFL QB; ESPECIALLY in a city like Chicago. You need SOME zip on your ball to cut through that wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 2 hours ago, topwop1 said: Right, but again and I'll stress this 1000 times over, he is an offensive head coach so he should have pushed for more/or better investments in the OL & QB if he knew they were crappy instead of thinking his buddies Castillo, Lazor and Flip would just magically fix things. The fact that he was fine with these units heading into his 3rd season tells me that he has a high ego and believes in his coaching more than talent. Well newsflash, his coaching hasn't been working with this offense. They stink all around. There's no excuses at this point. The first couple years ok sure but 3 seasons in now? We have to be careful about assigning too much blame on Nagy for personnel issues. That's not his job. And while he may have influence, we have no idea how much. Consider specifically the Mack trade which was made in Nagy's 1st season when he likely had little influence over the decision. That trade constrained the Bears' resources in the last 2 off-seasons and significantly impacted how the team could be improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, abstract_thought said: We have to be careful about assigning too much blame on Nagy for personnel issues. That's not his job. And while he may have influence, we have no idea how much. Consider specifically the Mack trade which was made in Nagy's 1st season when he likely had little influence over the decision. That trade constrained the Bears' resources in the last 2 off-seasons and significantly impacted how the team could be improved. I don;t think we have to be careful about blaming Nagy for anything. Pace deserves equal if not more blame but they work together. To your point we can reverse that thought by also saying that we have no idea how little influence he has. The fact remains that the offense is a complete and utter disaster 3 years in to his job and it can be argued that this offense fared better under Dowell Loggains with lesser talent when Pace was just starting as the GM. That's bad. Real bad. I would also like to consider where this team would be without the Mack trade. I think Nagy, and possibly Pace would have been fired by now if not for that trade. Edited October 30, 2020 by topwop1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 16 hours ago, abstract_thought said: Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers seem exciting enough. Now count up how many QBs picked around where they were who sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 21 hours ago, WindyCity said: Now count up how many QBs picked around where they were who sucked. There are plenty of QBs picked in the top 10 who also sucked. It's not a foregone conclusion that picking later in the draft means you can't find a QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 2 hours ago, abstract_thought said: There are plenty of QBs picked in the top 10 who also sucked. It's not a foregone conclusion that picking later in the draft means you can't find a QB. It does make it more difficult. You need other teams, sometimes multiple times to pass on the QB. There is a reason most of the starting QBs in the league were high picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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