Pool Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 On 11/29/2020 at 5:31 PM, Heinz D. said: Well...that's sort of the "Circle of Death" in the entire NFL, isn't it? We just have to hope things work out in the future. And it's sad that the '85 Bears have to be our go-to happy place, as Ditka was so profoundly inept... I get what you're saying, but there was a period of time when the organization was having problems putting butts in the seats, and I truly think if the Bears keep mucking about, we will quickly be in a similar place again. There is a widespread sense of dissatisfaction with this organization among its fanbase, and I'm not just talking about the vibes I pick up around here. There is a clear sense that the current staff has absolutely blown what should have been a wonderful opportunity. There is no doubt in my mind merchandise and ticket sales will be down next year if they keep Nagy/Pace. The dissatisfaction is everywhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Nads786 said: I was really against the Mack trade when it happened and then quickly changed my mind after his performance in the first 5 games. I think my initial read was correct. Mack is a very good player, but he plays in a league where offense is king. If we kept our picks we would have been in a better spot to build the OL and skill positions. It seems like most of these deals almost never work. Didn't JJ Watt win DPOY while the Texans were a 5-11 team? Many people cautioned against giving away the picks. It's great to have Mack here and he's lifted this team, but you can only make that type of move if you have most of the roster figured out. When Pace made the trade, the Bears had a struggling OL, a brand new QB, and a bunch of new supporting players who didn't pan out as expected. It was a huge gamble and it didn't pay off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: Many people cautioned against giving away the picks. It's great to have Mack here and he's lifted this team, but you can only make that type of move if you have most of the roster figured out. When Pace made the trade, the Bears had a struggling OL, a brand new QB, and a bunch of new supporting players who didn't pan out as expected. It was a huge gamble and it didn't pay off. If Mitch had been good-great it would have worked. Put Watson on that 2018 team and don't tell me you don't think they could make the superbowl I still like Pace, like Nagy, but failing at acquiring and developing a QB, and going into this season with that OL is unforgivable. Looking back at the trade deadline, I stilll wonder if ownership was holding Pace's hand away from trading for OL help though. Best thing for everyone is to lose out and draft in the top ten, and get Wilson or Fields if possible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, RunningVaccs said: If Mitch had been good-great it would have worked. Put Watson on that 2018 team and don't tell me you don't think they could make the superbowl I still like Pace, like Nagy, but failing at acquiring and developing a QB, and going into this season with that OL is unforgivable. Looking back at the trade deadline, I stilll wonder if ownership was holding Pace's hand away from trading for OL help though. Best thing for everyone is to lose out and draft in the top ten, and get Wilson or Fields if possible. Yes sir. If Mitch works out. Pace took a chance on Mitch and put his job on the line by trying to build around him in order to give this team the best chance at winning a SB that we had seen in years. It didn't workout, but I still appreciate the strong effort. Everyone knew the risks going into the 2018 season and they was happy about it, but now they're acting surprised. Edited December 2, 2020 by JAF-N72EX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, RunningVaccs said: Best thing for everyone is to lose out and draft in the top ten, and get Wilson or Fields if possible Those 3 games we scraped by and won might really come back and haunt us, as our next few games are against fellow bottom feeder teams. As it stands those 3 games alone put us from 3rd overall to 12th overall right now.... That's literally Mack, Robinson, Hicks, AND Fuller in value of being forced to trade them out to try and get up in a position to get Fields or Wilson at 3, 4, or 5. Edited December 2, 2020 by Epyon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Epyon said: Those 3 games we scraped by and won might really come back and haunt us, as our next few games are against fellow bottom feeder teams. As it stands those 3 games alone put us from 3rd overall to 12th overall right now.... That's literally Mack, Robinson, Hicks, AND Fuller in value of being forced to trade them out to try and get up in a position to get Fields or Wilson at 3, 4, or 5. From now on I'm a single-minded meatball fan, but instead of demanding they "play Bears football" or run the ball in cold weather, I am going full meatball for them drafting a QB every year until they get a great one, and then still drafting QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 5 hours ago, RunningVaccs said: From now on I'm a single-minded meatball fan, but instead of demanding they "play Bears football" or run the ball in cold weather, I am going full meatball for them drafting a QB every year until they get a great one, and then still drafting QBs. I mean you can't win with a poor team, no matter how good your qb is.... But statistically speaking you also just don't win a super bowl with anything other than an elite qb. Our focus simply has to be on getting the right guy under center AND getting him enough protection to ensure he doesn't die back there because of no talent clowns like most of our current OL. Literally everything else is secondary towards a contending franchise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 16 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said: Everyone knew the risks going into the 2018 season and they was happy about it, but now they're acting surprised. I'm surprised because things seemed to me like they were going to work out. I knew the risks, sure, I acknowledged that all along. But there were enough promising early returns, I felt the team was on the right track. I was wrong. I think a lot us here were in the same, or a similarly designed, boat. If you foresaw the oncoming doom more clearly than I did--then good on you. You called it right. 8 hours ago, beardown3231 said: "You're too good of an athlete to allow this to be the downfall of why you won't make it. Or one of the reasons why." Are you sure about ANY OF THAT STATEMENT, Orlovsky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 The stupidest part of that tweet is that the ball hit Kmet in the ******* breadbasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 4 hours ago, G08 said: The stupidest part of that tweet is that the ball hit Kmet in the ******* breadbasket. I mean, Kmet had to turn back for it rather than being led to the endzone. Kmet should have caught it, but Tru made an open throw into a contested one. 23 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said: Everyone knew the risks going into the 2018 season and they was happy about it, but now they're acting surprised. Surprised at what? Acting surprised defense was going to be the strength of the team? We all knew that. I don't think anyone expected the offense to be this laughable though, and I don't believe anyone should have. Unless someone was claiming they knew Nagy would completely fail in developing Tru and installing an offense, which I don;t remember anyone on this sub-forum claiming that off the top of my head. Or do you mean that it was a major swing for the fences? I mean, we went out for a DPOY and made a massive deal and made him the highest paid defensive player in history. I applauded the balls to make the move. But making a big move means nothing if the product fails. Angelo doesn't get a pass for his moves when they failed. Emery made some moves to get seriously talented guys like Marshall, Bennett, drafted Jeffrey, etc but still failed. Both get credit or making the bog moves, but if they fail they don't get a pass for it. Same as Pace. He went for the best player on the market, moved up to get his QB, and signed the young offensive minded HC. All moves took guts but only Mack paid any dividends. The last two were massive flops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 16 hours ago, Epyon said: I mean you can't win with a poor team, no matter how good your qb is.... But statistically speaking you also just don't win a super bowl with anything other than an elite qb. Our focus simply has to be on getting the right guy under center AND getting him enough protection to ensure he doesn't die back there because of no talent clowns like most of our current OL. Literally everything else is secondary towards a contending franchise. If you have a franchise QB you have the biggest piece of the puzzle set. You have a much better chance at getting better players around QBs than at places where there isn't a decent QB. FAs will go to the highest bidder most often, but for a lot of vets they want to challenge for a ring or want to have a prove it deal in hopes of one more big deal. Any position on offense is easier to shine with a QB that does his job well. OL don't get as many coverage sacks, may get less 8 man fronts to help in the run game (which also helps RBs) and WR and TEs clearly will have better chances with a real QB than a Bear QB. Defenses come and go. The Bears are about to lose their great defense, maybe a year or two left unless some standouts rise up. But a franchise QB has 12-15 years that you can have as a potential window to win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 4 hours ago, Sugashane said: I mean, Kmet had to turn back for it rather than being led to the endzone. Kmet should have caught it, but Tru made an open throw into a contested one. Surprised at what? Acting surprised defense was going to be the strength of the team? We all knew that. I don't think anyone expected the offense to be this laughable though, and I don't believe anyone should have. Unless someone was claiming they knew Nagy would completely fail in developing Tru and installing an offense, which I don;t remember anyone on this sub-forum claiming that off the top of my head. Or do you mean that it was a major swing for the fences? I mean, we went out for a DPOY and made a massive deal and made him the highest paid defensive player in history. I applauded the balls to make the move. But making a big move means nothing if the product fails. Angelo doesn't get a pass for his moves when they failed. Emery made some moves to get seriously talented guys like Marshall, Bennett, drafted Jeffrey, etc but still failed. Both get credit or making the bog moves, but if they fail they don't get a pass for it. Same as Pace. He went for the best player on the market, moved up to get his QB, and signed the young offensive minded HC. All moves took guts but only Mack paid any dividends. The last two were massive flops. The reason this is all aflame is because the team-and we the fans if I remember correctly-assumed the defense would be good-to-great again, and they mostly are, but we also assumed the offense couldn't be worse than 2019, even with the limited action in improving the OL. I really thought this team would be playoff bound at 9 or 10 wins, but didn't count on things getting so much worse. Last year we all debated what was wrong with the offense, and most of us seemed to think it was systemic rather than one thing (as in, coaching, QB, OL, players were all subaverage) It just didn't seem likely that the Bears wouldn't fix at least some of those issues before this season. I think they improved at WR depth with Mooney, improved TE (as they didn't have a starter last year) but in every other area got worse or flat. Again, systemic failure so that fixing one issue wouldn' put rings on thier fingers, but if I had to say the biggest single move that hurt the offense was not going OL in round 2. As most of Pace's moves looked like win-in-2020, drafting a TE who needed lots of development with their "first" pick was odd. If they had picked up a tackle in round 2, and a guard instead of Kindle Vildor, it's easy to imagine things looking brighter. Starting Rashaad Coward for so many games was a killshot for this team. I don't think Pace is any worse than most of the GMs in the league, I think he has either a bad eye for offensive talent, or is spectacularly unlucky on one side of the ball. Given the way most of his offensive big picks were regarded by media and fans before the drafts (whether you knew better or not, recall that most seemed to have Tru as QB1, and White was mocked to us over and over) indicates he's not out in left field with this choices, and really just has **** luck. Either way missing on QB and going into this season with that OL add up, and he shouldn't be here next year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nads786 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Anyone watch Zach Wilson play last night? I came away unimpressed. I think this was the first time he faced any pressure and routinely missed throws and more importantly mentally let it get to him. At one point he shoved a player after a scramble and you could tell he was losing his cool. Zach’s talent is very high level, however, I’m not sure if the mental side is there. additional point - his OL was giving the running game 4-6 yards a carry. I would like to see him run an offense without such a good run game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Nads786 said: Anyone watch Zach Wilson play last night? I came away unimpressed. I think this was the first time he faced any pressure and routinely missed throws and more importantly mentally let it get to him. At one point he shoved a player after a scramble and you could tell he was losing his cool. Zach’s talent is very high level, however, I’m not sure if the mental side is there. additional point - his OL was giving the running game 4-6 yards a carry. I would like to see him run an offense without such a good run game. He has a lot of Favre and Cutler in his game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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