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So it begins, do the Bears draft a 1st round QB in 2021?


dafreak

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8 hours ago, soulman said:

I guess the answer to the question asked in the title is maybe.  Seems we need both a young OT and a young QB.  Our biggest problem may be where we might draft.

If we're picking somewhere in the low to mid 20s the top two or three prospects at both positions are likely to be gone and now that we finally have a full compliment of draft picks again do we want to give up a kings ransom in picks to move up to get a top ten pick in order to get a #2 or a #3 prospect at either position.

It's really far too early to know so other than saying OT and QB appear to be our two biggest needs I have no idea what we might do or who we might draft. It's too soon.

If you are going to trade up from the 20s you might as well sell the farm and go get Lawrence.  I dont want to see a trade for Lance.  

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1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said:

If you are going to trade up from the 20s you might as well sell the farm and go get Lawrence.  I dont want to see a trade for Lance.  

Same, sell and go big. Pace's 1sts have been pretty bad overall anyway, but he does better with mid round picks. Go for the biggest talent at the biggest position then use the leftover resources for what his (seems to be at least) strength is at drafting. Plus Pace finds a number of deals in FA, no reason to think that suddenly stops. 

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1 minute ago, Sugashane said:

Same, sell and go big. Pace's 1sts have been pretty bad overall anyway, but he does better with mid round picks. Go for the biggest talent at the biggest position then use the leftover resources for what his (seems to be at least) strength is at drafting. Plus Pace finds a number of deals in FA, no reason to think that suddenly stops. 

FWIW Pace has a good relationship with Jets GM Joe Douglas who used to work under Pace with the Bears.  Granted the Jets end up with the 1st overall pick or even top-5...which is a good possibility right now, then maybe Pace can swing a deal with him for that pick OR if Jets want to move on from Darnold, maybe Bears can trade some picks (2nd round+) for him and see if he has anything to offer in Nagy's system while Foles continues to hold down the fort.  I still think that Darnold is a good talent but has just been put in an awful situation in NY with no talent surrounding him and a pretty bad HC.  Darnold is better than Trubisky IMO.

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1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said:

If you are going to trade up from the 20s you might as well sell the farm and go get Lawrence.  I dont want to see a trade for Lance.  

Who, in the running for #1, would give up Lawerence?   Probably Bengals and Texans and maybe, possibly Dolphins, but probably not.   Almost nobody else with worst record would.  

Jets are most likely team to get #1 at this point and I can't see them passing on Lawerence.  

I think its possible Bears choose to roll with Foles another year or two as primary depending on how season goes and his health.  Maybe they draft a mid-tier prospect or two and hope for a lottery win.   

Other, perhaps more realistic possibility is you need to look at QBs teams have currently if they get #1 pick and think about if you want them and what you are willing to give up for them in possible trade and/or salary.

Example:  Jets and Darnold.

                  Dolphins and Tua.

                  Chargers and Herbert

                  Broncos and Lock 

                 Falcons and Ryan

                 Lions and Stafford

                 Vikings and Cousins 

                 Jags and Minshew

I think it probably goes Darnold, Tua, Herbert, Minshew in order of desire from Bears.  Fans anyway.

But I don't see Bears doing any of that to be honest.  Not really a Bears move.   Maybe Darnold would make sense if demands aren't too high or maybe Darnold in 2022.  But Bears may end up in a bidding war for Darnold with another desperate team.   Darnold could be broken and be a mental bust by that time as well even though he has talent.    

I think its more likely Bears draft a later prospect in next couple of years and keep plugging in veteran QBs as needed until they find a down draft QB they like or have an awful season and get a really high pick.

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How about this?  Try this idea on and swish it around your mouth: 

If I am Pace I get ahead of game and I trade a #1 and MT to Jets right now for Darnold before next regime gets in there and plays hardball or other teams are around to bid it up.     

Let them play MT and totally tank the year and guarantee #1.

We have our QB of future learning Nagy playbook under Nagy/Foles right now so he can hit ground running next year or if Foles gets hurt he can get snaps this year.   He stops getting beat to hell in NY.   

And we got Darnold on a rookie deal for two more years (5th year option).  Hello new left tackle.

Darnold is still just 23 years old.  I think he is younger than Burrow.   

I should totally be a GM.

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12 hours ago, topwop1 said:

Nah c'mon the guy is a special talent. As much as we'd like to believe the Bears would mess it up you cannot teach that skill. 

But anyway I hate dwelling on this over and over. 

We got Foles baby!!!

I've thought about it man... he would have sat behind Mike Glennon and been forced to play too early with Dowell freaking Loggains teaching him.

That's a far, FAR cry from sitting for a year behind Alex Smith (whom Mahomes credited a TON with teaching him how to be a pro) and arguably one of the greatest offensive minds in NFL history in Andy Reid.

Plus, look at our track record AS A FRANCHISE for developing QBs. They come here to die.

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14 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

How about this?  Try this idea on and swish it around your mouth: 

If I am Pace I get ahead of game and I trade a #1 and MT to Jets right now for Darnold before next regime gets in there and plays hardball or other teams are around to bid it up.     

Let them play MT and totally tank the year and guarantee #1.

We have our QB of future learning Nagy playbook under Nagy/Foles right now so he can hit ground running next year or if Foles gets hurt he can get snaps this year.   He stops getting beat to hell in NY.   

And we got Darnold on a rookie deal for two more years (5th year option).  Hello new left tackle.

Darnold is still just 23 years old.  I think he is younger than Burrow.   

I should totally be a GM.

Nagy was on Reid's staff when they fell in love with Nick Foles. Nagy also apparently liked Gardner Minshew.

I think he knows what he wants in a QB and I think he can communicate that to Pace and the scouts. Let them take another crack at it while we see if we can be captivated by some "Foles Magic" -- copyright G08, FF 10/1/2020.

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2 minutes ago, G08 said:

Nagy was on Reid's staff when they fell in love with Nick Foles. Nagy also apparently liked Gardner Minshew.

I think he knows what he wants in a QB and I think he can communicate that to Pace and the scouts. Let them take another crack at it while we see if we can be captivated by some "Foles Magic" -- copyright G08, FF 10/1/2020.

I really like Foles, I just see his play style (stands tall in pocket) and I see Leno's current play style (speed bump) and I think he is not long for this world.

 

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43 minutes ago, G08 said:

I've thought about it man... he would have sat behind Mike Glennon and been forced to play too early with Dowell freaking Loggains teaching him.

That's a far, FAR cry from sitting for a year behind Alex Smith (whom Mahomes credited a TON with teaching him how to be a pro) and arguably one of the greatest offensive minds in NFL history in Andy Reid.

Plus, look at our track record AS A FRANCHISE for developing QBs. They come here to die.

You're not wrong but I'm just talking specifically from a talent perspective.  Mahomes' arm talent and ability to process is miles and away better than Mitch's.  I know we already know all of this but I don't see how that would have been coached out of Mahomes whether he was drafted here and had Fox/Loggains coaching him or not.

And FWIW I actually thought Mitch played better under Fox and Loggains vs what we saw the past 3 years with Nagy coaching him.

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3 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

If you are going to trade up from the 20s you might as well sell the farm and go get Lawrence.  I dont want to see a trade for Lance.  

So there you have it.  I would not sell the farm to trade up for a player who may well be the #1 overall pick and that assumes the pick is even being shopped.

Personally I don't even understand why this should even be a topic of conversation right now.  It's not like we're 0-3 and seem destined for another 3 win season where it might actually be possible to trade up to #1 overall or even be #1 overall.  We might as well be discussing hosting the next SB in Chicago. 

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2 hours ago, topwop1 said:

You're not wrong but I'm just talking specifically from a talent perspective.  Mahomes' arm talent and ability to process is miles and away better than Mitch's.  I know we already know all of this but I don't see how that would have been coached out of Mahomes whether he was drafted here and had Fox/Loggains coaching him or not.

And FWIW I actually thought Mitch played better under Fox and Loggains vs what we saw the past 3 years with Nagy coaching him.

Mitch played his best ball in preseason 2017.  He's still at his best when a play breaks down and he's feeling confident to get something done.  I am quite sad for him, as he seems like a good guy who just can't handle the mental game when the lights are on. 

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4 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Again you keep missing my point, you are consistently naming QBs who were drafted after the first round.  I'm not against drafting QBs after the first, I'm not against drafting a QB in the first provides it's a top 10 talent.  I'm against reaching in the first round to draft a 2nd round talent QB.  That's what teams do when they draft a QB in the first round outside the top 10.  Take a look at the history of what I'm talking about.  Find me an example of a QB taken from 11-28, not under some extraordinary circumstance of inexplicably falling not due to talent (this eliminates Rodgers and Marino) that went on to be a franchise QB.  Why is that?  Well it's quite simple actually, QBs rise on draft day.  If you are a first round QB you go in the top 10.  It's that simple.  With Marino, speculation is that Miami started the rumor the night before the draft that ultimately led him to fall to them.  With Rodgers it started with the 9ers not wanting to put the pressure on him to be a hometown hero, and then it was team after team not looking for a QB for whatever reason.  Reaching for a QB is what hurts your franchise.  

But this is a ridiculous idea. If a QB with talent is available, you should draft them whenever possible.

Drew Brees was the 1st pick of round 2. You don’t think the Broncos regret passing on him for Willie Middlebrooks?

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5 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

If you are going to trade up from the 20s you might as well sell the farm and go get Lawrence.  I dont want to see a trade for Lance.  

They do not have the ammunition to get Lawrence or Fields.

No one wants to move for 1-3 down to 20 and out of the impact talent.

 

We are in QB no mans land.

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7 hours ago, topwop1 said:

FWIW Pace has a good relationship with Jets GM Joe Douglas who used to work under Pace with the Bears.  Granted the Jets end up with the 1st overall pick or even top-5...which is a good possibility right now, then maybe Pace can swing a deal with him for that pick OR if Jets want to move on from Darnold, maybe Bears can trade some picks (2nd round+) for him and see if he has anything to offer in Nagy's system while Foles continues to hold down the fort.  I still think that Darnold is a good talent but has just been put in an awful situation in NY with no talent surrounding him and a pretty bad HC.  Darnold is better than Trubisky IMO.

Definitely understand your viewpoint and see the benefits of it.

I've never been a fan of Darnold, even in college I thought he was really overrated, so I am admittedly biased against him. Even if they did do a trade for him I wouldn't go above a 4th. In 2021 he will be on the last year of his deal so it is a rental that you get little time with. If it had been prior to this season I'd be more comfortable with throwing him in, but if the common excuse for Tru is actually true (it takes 3 years to master the system) then he will be given a handicapped year to show he is worth a bigger investment. I'd rather invest with draft picks at QB and use the saved money to invest in talent around the young guys. Being better than Tru should be an expectation of anyone who has a shot starting, he has just been disappointing in his development. 

Even at this point Nagy has to show he can consistently call good games, now Tru is out so he has a vet who knows the system. So there are no excuses. I'm hoping he does well. In truth he hasn't shown the ability to mold a QB either without Reid, as Tru has declined since 2018. Hopefully that was more Tru just not having "it" rather than Nagy not having Reid to carry him. I think Nagy is smart enough to do the job though. 

 

 

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