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Shockwave

Week 4: New York Giants @ LA Rams

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

Yeah Daniel Jones sucks. Let’s call a spade a spade 

No, what Daniel Jones has to work with sucks. 3/5 of the offensive line is new. Next year two of them (RT and Center) will not be on this team. At wideout, on a good team like the Rams and Cowboys Slayton is competing to be the #3 wideout. On this lousy team he is probably our #1. It is clear Golden Tate is past his prime. Sterling Shepard is  injury prone and when he is healthy he is just a good route runner everything else is at best average. At tight end Engram has the talent he just can't seem to put things together, when he was injured last year and Kaden was starting, I did not miss Engram that much.

In the last three years Daniel Jones has to learn three offensive systems. For this season due to Covid he had to learn it with out a real training camp and no preseason games. Can we agree Eli was a good QB, the offense did not look pretty early on when he had to learn and run Mcadoo system for the first time. Now we expect more from Daniel Jones?

 

 

Edited by Go_Giants

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2 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

No, what Daniel Jones has to work with sucks. 3/5 of the offensive line is new. Next year two of them (RT and Center) will not be on this team. At wideout, on a good team like the Rams and Cowboys Slayton is competing to be the #3 wideout. On this lousy team he is probably our #1. It is clear Golden Tate is past his prime. Sterling Shepard is  injury prone and when he is healthy he is just a good route runner everything else is at best average. At tight end Engram has the talent he just can't seem to put things together, when he was injured last year and Kaden was starting, I did not miss Engram that much.

In the last three years Daniel Jones has to learn three offensive systems. For this season due to Covid he had to learn it with out a real training camp and no preseason games. Can we agree Eli was a good QB, the offense did not look pretty early on when he had to learn and run Mcadoo system for the first time. Now we expect more from Daniel Jones?

 

 

Dude; he sucks plain and simple. Staring down receivers, inaccuracy, turnovers, holding on to the ball too long. Almost all having nothing to do with the surrounding cast. 

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29 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Dude; he sucks plain and simple. Staring down receivers, inaccuracy, turnovers, holding on to the ball too long. Almost all having nothing to do with the surrounding cast. 

Ignoring the main point. He does not have a good surrounding cast. You believe he has one?

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25 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

Ignoring the main point. He does not have a good surrounding cast. You believe he has one?

No he doesn’t have a good one. 

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I'm not on the DJ sucks train..yet. No doubt he has regressed this season. Yes he's made some god awful decisions and throws. Yes he is staring down receivers. These are things young QB's do. It's part of the growing pains and progression. It's why some teams opt to take on a journeyman QB instead of start fresh with a green one. You have to be willing to live through the growing pains.

He was a bit erratic yesterday but prior to this game he's been astonishingly accurate with his throws (when given time), his wheels have proven to be quite useful, the read progression needs work but he's spreading the ball around. He's not force feeding it to EE or Slayton over and over. My guess is he's completely rattled by all the strip sacks so he's playing super conservative to try and cut down on the TO's. Instead of just going out there and playing he's thinking about protecting the ball at all times. Being afraid of where the rushers are instead of finding an open guy. And who can blame him for not trusting the line? From memory it just seems to me like at least half of those strip sack fumbles came almost instantly after the snap. There is just no excuse for the Oline blowing assignments, not picking up blitzes, and just straight whiffing on their guy.

Now if Lawrence ends up becoming a real possibility I think you have to consider taking him because I think he is better then Jones. But it doesn't mean Jones sucks or is a bust....yet.

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7 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

I'm not on the DJ sucks train..yet. No doubt he has regressed this season. Yes he's made some god awful decisions and throws. Yes he is staring down receivers. These are things young QB's do. It's part of the growing pains and progression. It's why some teams opt to take on a journeyman QB instead of start fresh with a green one. You have to be willing to live through the growing pains.

He was a bit erratic yesterday but prior to this game he's been astonishingly accurate with his throws (when given time), his wheels have proven to be quite useful, the read progression needs work but he's spreading the ball around. He's not force feeding it to EE or Slayton over and over. My guess is he's completely rattled by all the strip sacks so he's playing super conservative to try and cut down on the TO's. Instead of just going out there and playing he's thinking about protecting the ball at all times. Being afraid of where the rushers are instead of finding an open guy. And who can blame him for not trusting the line? From memory it just seems to me like at least half of those strip sack fumbles came almost instantly after the snap. There is just no excuse for the Oline blowing assignments, not picking up blitzes, and just straight whiffing on their guy.

Now if Lawrence ends up becoming a real possibility I think you have to consider taking him because I think he is better then Jones. But it doesn't mean Jones sucks or is a bust....yet.

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He's had two of his four least accurate games in back to back weeks.  He's in a rut, along with the rest of this offense.  The rest of the season is an audition for him, whether it's fair or not given the surrounding cast

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Posted (edited)

From a Jet fan,  you put a heck of a scare in Rams. Except for that late long TD pass you completely shut down their running game and their mid range and deep passes. Your QB is going to be OK, he throws a nice mid range pass. the accuracy on his deep pass will come in time. That game yesterday could  of went either way in the second half.

Edited by doumeyer
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9 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

No, what Daniel Jones has to work with sucks. 3/5 of the offensive line is new. Next year two of them (RT and Center) will not be on this team. At wideout, on a good team like the Rams and Cowboys Slayton is competing to be the #3 wideout. On this lousy team he is probably our #1. It is clear Golden Tate is past his prime. Sterling Shepard is  injury prone and when he is healthy he is just a good route runner everything else is at best average. At tight end Engram has the talent he just can't seem to put things together, when he was injured last year and Kaden was starting, I did not miss Engram that much.

In the last three years Daniel Jones has to learn three offensive systems. For this season due to Covid he had to learn it with out a real training camp and no preseason games. Can we agree Eli was a good QB, the offense did not look pretty early on when he had to learn and run Mcadoo system for the first time. Now we expect more from Daniel Jones?

Why does everybody act like it is either one or the other- Jones sucks or the players around him suck. Right now, it's both. With Shep and Saquon injured, as they seem to be often, Jones has nobody to throw to. Engram is not a good player, and Slayton is a nice piece but not a #1 receiver. Tate is washed up. The OL is very much a work in progress at best, and awful at worst. And, on top of all of that, Jones is holding on to the ball too long, staring down his receivers, making poor decisions, and has been wildly, uncharacteristically inaccurate the last 2 games. That's how you go 2 games without a touchdown.

We can't say definitively that Jones is a bad QB. What we can definitively say though is that he is not a QB who can overcome poor surrounding talent, put a team on his back and win. That is enough for me to want to move on if we have a chance at Lawrence next year. Lawrence is a QB prospect who can do that, and QB is the most important position in football. Regardless of what we do at QB, it is obvious the offense needs better weapons. We need a big time WR, 3 new tight ends, and potentially another piece or two on the OL.

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7 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

Why does everybody act like it is either one or the other- Jones sucks or the players around him suck. Right now, it's both. With Shep and Saquon injured, as they seem to be often, Jones has nobody to throw to. Engram is not a good player, and Slayton is a nice piece but not a #1 receiver. Tate is washed up. The OL is very much a work in progress at best, and awful at worst. And, on top of all of that, Jones is holding on to the ball too long, staring down his receivers, making poor decisions, and has been wildly, uncharacteristically inaccurate the last 2 games. That's how you go 2 games without a touchdown.

We can't say definitively that Jones is a bad QB. What we can definitively say though is that he is not a QB who can overcome poor surrounding talent, put a team on his back and win. That is enough for me to want to move on if we have a chance at Lawrence next year. Lawrence is a QB prospect who can do that, and QB is the most important position in football. Regardless of what we do at QB, it is obvious the offense needs better weapons. We need a big time WR, 3 new tight ends, and potentially another piece or two on the OL.

I wanted Chase Claypool in round two.  Thought he would be a good big target for Jones.

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2 minutes ago, Gmen said:

I wanted Chase Claypool in round two.  Thought he would be a good big target for Jones.

It depends a lot on how the players, and UDFAs, we did pick pan out, but not picking a single WR in a draft as deep as 2020 was in WRs might be a fireable offense on its own for Gettleman. We need to go WR early next year, or we need to bring in a guy like Allen Robinson.

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As much as I want Trevor Lawerence, I really want Jayson Oweh. That kid is a freak of nature. 

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23 minutes ago, YogiBiz said:

As much as I want Trevor Lawerence, I really want Jayson Oweh. That kid is a freak of nature. 

This is a QB driven league and Lawrence is allegedly the best prospect since Andrew Luck.  If the Giants are picking #1, it's a no brainer IMO.

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28 minutes ago, Gmen said:

This is a QB driven league and Lawrence is allegedly the best prospect since Andrew Luck.  If the Giants are picking #1, it's a no brainer IMO.

A better question at this point- do you like Trey Lance or Justin Fields more than Jones if we were picking in the 2-5 range?

I need to see the whole season play out and see if Jones and the offense improve, but right now, I'm taking Sewell or Chase over any QB not named Lawrence.

Jones is a problem, but he's not the problem. Nobody is getting open, and Garrett does not have this offense running well at all. I said it when it happened, and it has since been confirmed, but there was a pass play yesterday where nobody ran a route. I don't mean nobody got open, I mean nobody ran a route. We aren't talented enough to have plays like that and win games.

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Posted (edited)

I myself am at wits end with Jones, that horribly bad INT that sealed our fate yesterday was inexcusable by him. We had a chance to win that game. The wins aren't as important (to me) as him showing us progression / maturation and in all honesty i'm not seeing either with him. Its another game with 2 more flubs of the ball whether it be a fumble or an interception. You are not going to win in this league when u are constantly turning the ball over. This guy is supposed to be a franchise QB for us and i dont think he can get it done. I think he can be a solid backup in this league but as a starter he's too incapable as of now to lead a lesser talented team downfield without a major game changing mishap. If ppl wanna argue we dont have any or enough talent for him all i gotta say is Carson Wentz last night beat the 49ers team that manhandled us with WRs Travis Fulgham, Greg Ward Jr and Richard Rodgers.. And ya your all saying who? who and who?... Oh and also Wentzs oline was minus both starting tackles, starting right guard and even bad play by his center. This is because franchise QBs are able to lead their teams even if the supporting cast isn't over the top capable. Jones isn't a franchise QB. He wont be our starter for much longer after this season is over. 

Edited by Giants4eva

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When Judge made that questionable decision to go for it on 4th & 11 instead of taking the three points, I was pretty sure we would lose. It was just a question of how.

Jones' regression continued just as our defense seemed to hit its stride and play their best game so far. You could see a silver lining if he were at least a reliable game manager, but he coughs up the ball too often for that. At this rate the Giants will be drafting another QB in '21.

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