Hypothetical

[agarcia34]

I see a lot of people that are just content. All you look at is the bad that can happen instead of the good. 
 

Rather be mediocre going 7-9 or 8-8 then take a risk that can lead you to greater than that. Imagine if the Chiefs thought like that. Why would the Chiefs wants to move on from Alex Smith when they were a playoff team. because KC saw the limitations Alex Smith had and knew they couldn’t count on him to take that team to the next level. I am not saying there is a Mahomes in this draft. I am giving u a comparison on what can happen when you take a risk.

The point of playing this game is to win a super bowl and not be mediocre and happy to go 7-9. Carr ain’t leading you to a super bowl. It’s that simple. But hey commitment to mediocrity

 

Also stop with the old thinking that missing out on a rookie QB kills your team. The Cardinals proved that is wrong. Drafted Rosen figured out he was *** and got Kyler. We didn’t see the Cardinals suck for 3-4 years before they got Kyler. The rookie pay scale stopped any of that from happening.

Its not easy to find a great young QB. But it’s called putting in the work to believe in the one you pick. Like Seattle when they saw Russell. They believe in his ability based on what they watched on film and meeting with him. Like when KC GM saw Mahomes for the first time he knew he wanted him. You put in the work and believe in the QB you take. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by agarcia34

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

I see a lot of people that are just content. All you look at is the bad that can happen instead of the good. 

Rather be mediocre going 7-9 or 8-8 then take a risk that can lead you to greater than that. Imagine if the Chiefs thought like that. Why would the Chiefs wants to move on from Alex Smith when they were a playoff team. I am not saying there is a Mahomes in this draft. I am giving u a comparison on what can happen when you take a risk.

The point of playing this game is to win a super bowl and not be mediocre and happy to go 7-9. Carr ain’t leading you to a super bowl. It’s that simple. But hey commitment to mediocrity

If we can find a superstar QB and move on from Carr, I'd be all for it. Before the 2019 draft it was rumored that Mayock/Gruden were enamored by Kyler Murray and if he was on the board at #4 I think he would've been the pick. 

But I also think that it's difficult to do unless you're picking a QB in the top 10-15. The Chiefs replaced Smith with Mahomes but they also moved up into the top 10 to get him. The Cardinals replaced Rosen with Murray but they had the 1st pick. 

There hasn't been any team in the league that has taken a second tier QB to move on from their current starter and had success. If we're going to replace Carr we're going to have to make a move into the top part of the draft to take his replacement. Which is possible but also risky. Because while you have a chance to secure a Mahomes, Watson, or Murray there's also a chance that you take a guy like Bortles, Rosen, or Tribusky. 

[Darbsk]

12 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

I see a lot of people that are just content. All you look at is the bad that can happen instead of the good. 
 

Rather be mediocre going 7-9 or 8-8 then take a risk that can lead you to greater than that. Imagine if the Chiefs thought like that. Why would the Chiefs wants to move on from Alex Smith when they were a playoff team. because KC saw the limitations Alex Smith had and knew they couldn’t count on him to take that team to the next level. I am not saying there is a Mahomes in this draft. I am giving u a comparison on what can happen when you take a risk.

The point of playing this game is to win a super bowl and not be mediocre and happy to go 7-9. Carr ain’t leading you to a super bowl. It’s that simple. But hey commitment to mediocrity

I dont think anyone here are content or complacent with 7-9 or even 9-7 type seasons.

You've actually made the perfect example with the Chiefs. They had Smith and they built around him with good players, good coaches and a good scheme. The Chiefs had built themselves up into a very competitive team and then slotted a talented QB into an extremely friendly situation where he flourished. If you want to upgrade QB then continue to build the team into a playoff team with good receivers, a competent D and then trade up and get your QB so he can be surrounded as much as possible with talent and give him the best possible chance 

I personally believe with the right team around him (as with 99% of QBs) Carr can win a Super Bowl. 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Darbsk said:

You've actually made the perfect example with the Chiefs. They had Smith and they built around him with good players, good coaches and a good scheme. The Chiefs had built themselves up into a very competitive team and then slotted a talented QB into an extremely friendly situation where he flourished. If you want to upgrade QB then continue to build the team into a playoff team with good receivers, a competent D and then trade up and get your QB so he can be surrounded as much as possible with talent and give him the best possible chance.

That's a great point and something that I mentioned in the offseason. I think Mayock and Gruden have done an excellent job of adding weapons so that Carr or whoever our next QB is can be successful. 

When Mahomes took over in Kansas City they already have Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelcee, and a very good offensive line. And I think that we're trying to build something similar with Henry Ruggs, Bryan Edwards, Josh Jacobs, Darren Waller, and our continued investment into the OL. 

I'm not a huge Carr fan or supporter but I think we made the right move to keep him this season. If we have another disappointing season I'd be all for exploring potential replacement options. But one thing I will say though is that Carr has had a pretty rough deal the last couple of seasons with all of the injuries and lack of talent at WR. 

[BigD1123]

4 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Whats your solution?  Get rid of Carr and sign a QB in FA?  Who would you suggest?

Also you mention "mediocrity for 5 years with Carr" but let's say we move on from Carr and draft a QB like you have suggested and he turns out to be Sam Darnold.  We have just wasted a 1st rounder on a QB and the team is hamstrung with a terrible QB for at least 3 years and then back to the drawing board.  

Also if we get rid of Carr and he lands in say Chicago, takes them deep into the playoffs and we draft a Darnold type bust you can say bye bye to Mayock and I like Mayock.  A catastrophic blunder like that will cause him to be fired.  

Yep gatta follow the rules. You want him gone. Need a replacement or at least one or two options.

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, BigD1123 said:

Yep gatta follow the rules. You want him gone. Need a replacement or at least one or two options.

I doubt whoever has the #1 pick will trade it but I wouldn't mind moving up for Justin Fields. Assuming we're picking around 20th we'd likely have to give up our 1st/2nd this year and our 1st/3rd next year to make the leap into the top 5 to get him. 

[Humble_Beast]

This guy really talking about trading Carr and has a Miami heat default picture. Smh lol 😂 

[BigD1123]

25 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I doubt whoever has the #1 pick will trade it but I wouldn't mind moving up for Justin Fields. Assuming we're picking around 20th we'd likely have to give up our 1st/2nd this year and our 1st/3rd next year to make the leap into the top 5 to get him. 

Lawrence is my number one. I know shocker!

[NYRaider]

13 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

This guy really talking about trading Carr and has a Miami heat default picture. Smh lol 😂 

I never suggested trading Carr just that if we have the opportunity to move up and take a QB with superstar potential, I'd be open to it. Who wouldn't? I like Carr but he's essentially Alex Smith, a good but not great QB that can win with the right pieces around him. 

When you look at Smith's career he was able to reach the playoffs 5 times but he only won 2 playoff games and never made it to a Conference Championship game. And funny enough in San Francisco when they replaced him with a younger, more dynamic player they made it to the Super Bowl and NFC Championship game in back to back years. Then when Kansas City replaced him with a younger, more dynamic player they made it to the AFC Championship game and won a Super Bowl in back to back years. 

[NYRaider]

7 minutes ago, BigD1123 said:

Lawrence is my number one. I know shocker!

I'd sacrifice my first born son for Lawerence to somehow end up in Las Vegas but the only way I could see a team trading the 1st pick is the Dolphins, Giants, or Bengals end up with it. 

[NYRaider]

On the bright side though if QB's like Jimmy Garoppolo, Jared Goff, and Joe Flacco can lead their team to the Super Bowl I think that Carr can as well. 

[drfrey13]

4 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I would love to see Carr extend plays with his legs as much as the next guy but I think a lot of fans think QB's like Russ and Mahomes grow on trees and are easy to obtain.  That is clearly not the case.  If we were to cut bait with Carr and draft a Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield our franchise would be set back for many years.  You do realize that correct?

I said nothing about replacing Carr.  That is not an option right now.  I was pointing out what he needs to work on.  Go back and watch his games this year and he has developed a bad habit of dropping his vision when pressure is around him.  He has also not learned how to get outside the pocket.  We had a lot of turnover on the line this past week so he should have been prepared to get outside and makes some plays with his legs.  With the pocket collapsing around him that often he should have ran more that 2 times.  Although Carr had more rushing yards even Brady ran 5 times.  I do not want him to be our leading rusher but when the situation dictates it you do it.  You would have freed up the receivers and Richard would not be getting double teamed.  You got to keep the defense honest.

[jimkelly02]

I think it’s a 2 part problem:

1) PG was never a great DC and after many years his defense hasn’t changed with the times.... it’s not innovative and doesn’t attack the offense, it’s sit back and pretty much bend not break.  I’m so sick of DCs for the last 20 years that are trying to rebuild a decent defense they had for a few measely years with another team and simply aren’t good or creative enough to build a defense around what he have. When we fire PG we need a younger, non-retread DC who hadn’t had the game pass him buy and who can adjust his scheme to the personnel’s talent.  

2) We simply lack the talent to implement the already flawed scheme.  The 3Tech DT is very important to the defense and Maleik Collins is a very, very poor run defender and mediocre at best as a pass rusher (although was good last year).  We need a Geno Atkins type 3Tech that can shoot gaps and get penetration in the run game.  Instead Collins gets blown off the ball all the time.   We also don’t have a capable SAM and are playing Littleton there instead of WILL where he belongs in a 4-3.  With Kwiatkoski out we don’t have the personnel to implement the double A-gap blitz... although I have the intuition that even when he comes back PG will fail to use it.  If you won’t dial up blitzes and rely on the front 4 to get pressure alone then you need premier talent, which we don’t have.  We should never have signed Nassib and would have been better served saving the money til we could afford and acquire a talented edge rusher.  

Lastly, injuries have hurt us and while part of the game for all teams i think it’s fair to expect us to suffer on Defense right now as a result.  I hate to break it to you guys but Rod Marinelli is just another version of PG..... another retread DC living off his last resume.  If was become DC I wouldn’t expect any major improvement.

We need a younger, innovative DC like Kris Richard or reach into the college scene for a guy like Brent Venables (Clemson) or Jimmy Lake (Washington) or Dave Aranda (LSU).

i never understood when people say “oh we couldn’t afford him DC”.... even if the guy would cost 3M instead of the average DC costing 1M who cares.... a great DC will produce far more than Nassib (8M), Collins (6M), etc 

[ronjon1990]

7 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I never suggested trading Carr just that if we have the opportunity to move up and take a QB with superstar potential, I'd be open to it. Who wouldn't? I like Carr but he's essentially Alex Smith, a good but not great QB that can win with the right pieces around him. 

When you look at Smith's career he was able to reach the playoffs 5 times but he only won 2 playoff games and never made it to a Conference Championship game. And funny enough in San Francisco when they replaced him with a younger, more dynamic player they made it to the Super Bowl and NFC Championship game in back to back years. Then when Kansas City replaced him with a younger, more dynamic player they made it to the AFC Championship game and won a Super Bowl in back to back years. 

To be totally fair to Smith, he was drafted into a far worse situation than Carr. I wouldn't discount how big of a slam dunk Harbaugh was (until they screwed it up). 

The reason I bring it up is that it took Harbaugh and co. for Smith to reach his potential. Unfortunately, Kaepernick had a supernova start to his career and Smith had been around a while and always had the pseudo-bust label on him. I really believe Smith could have had a far better overall career (to what level is debatable, of course) had he found himself in a stable system with a good staff like Harbaugh brought sooner. It's one of my hopes for Carr- that he turns things around thanks to a similar situation. 

Fwiw, I always felt like SF should've kept Smith over Kaepernick, but I understand why they didn't. Not to say Smith was great, but I think he could've done a whole lot more. So it gives me some hope for Carr here in year 3 and beyond. Lot of season yet to go though. 

Anyways, to the point of the initial question:

1. Replace Guenther with Marinelli. Start looking for a long term DC replacement. 

2. Start moving the talent we have around to fit needs whether they're playing out of position or not (ie: Joyner to FS). Basically, just remove guys from the field who have shown they don't need to be out there. Sign someone, anyone, who can play in a position of need, regardless of scheme fit. It can't get worse and maybe we get lucky with someone. Be creative. We've got nothing to lose. 

3. Make sure that whoever is calling defensive plays understands our weaknesses. Start blitzing more often. Play tighter coverage instead of guys constantly playing 7-8 yards off the LOS. Anything but watching the same failing experiment over and over.

[bucksavage1]

8 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Yeah I mean it's tough because the draft is such a crap shoot. There were 19 QB's selected in the first round between 2014-2019 and realistically I'd only take 6 of them over Carr for sure and those guys would be Wentz, Mahomes, Watson, Allen, Jackson, and Murray. 5/6 of those guys were top 15 picks with the only exceptions being Jackson who was the 32nd pick but ended up in the perfect situation.

Going back to all the 2010 draft there are only 6 QB's that weren't 1st round picks who are currently starters: Wilson, Prescott, Carr, Cousins, Mindshew, and Lock. 

So realistically if you're going to find an upgrade over Carr it's going to have to be a top 10-15 pick. 

We had draft capital to get a superstar QB and we choose to not to use it. We basically adding a Corner, DE and a Safety instead of trading up for Murray