Trojan Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 I would start by asking Clelin Ferrell to continue to bulk up to about 290. I think the historical player to model himself after is Justin Smith (Bengals/49ers). If he isn't going to dominate with exceptional bend off the edge, I want his exceptional arm length to master that hook move Justin Smith used to do that would set up Aldon blasting off the edge. This would make him more scheme diverse as well if the writing is on the wall for PG. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 14 hours ago, bucksavage1 said: We had draft capital to get a superstar QB and we choose to not to use it. We basically adding a Corner, DE and a Safety instead of trading up for Murray How do you know Arizona would have taken that trade? It’d have taken crazy sweet deal for Arizona not to take Murray. and sure he’s proving to be a good QB but its a real real real gamble to trade 3 1sts for a 5’9 QB..... not to mention Murray isn’t cemented as a franchise QB.... tons of young QBs have good starts then drop off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 55 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said: How do you know Arizona would have taken that trade? It’d have taken crazy sweet deal for Arizona not to take Murray. and sure he’s proving to be a good QB but its a real real real gamble to trade 3 1sts for a 5’9 QB..... not to mention Murray isn’t cemented as a franchise QB.... tons of young QBs have good starts then drop off. We'll never know the answer if Arizona did entertain two 2019 1st and one 2020 which is normal under a jump from 4 to 1. But if it was, we basically took( DE,CB,S) instead of taking a legit superstar QB. Jury still out on Murray sure but so is the defensive players we took. Murray a game changer while we seen flashes from our guys but nothing special Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 22 hours ago, bucksavage1 said: But if it was, we basically took( DE,CB,S) instead of taking a legit superstar QB. Jury still out on Murray sure but so is the defensive players we took. Murray a game changer while we seen flashes from our guys but nothing special Kingsbury was enamored with Murray though, I doubt they would've traded the pick regardless of the offer. I mean he wanted him so badly that he was willing to give up on Rosen, a top 10 pick the year before, and ship him out for a 2nd round pick to be able to take Murray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) If Mike Mayock was hired with Jon Gruden from the onset and Paul Guenther wasn't hired instead a generic multiple DC was hired that was absolutely stoked to work with Khalil Mack was hired. The Bears-Mack trade never occurs and as a result we have less money to spend in FA. Mike Mayock's 2018 top 100 is published obviously and can give us some framework of what might have been. 1.10 Minkah Fitzpatrick, FS Alabama (5th on Mayock's top 100 and BPA) 2.41 Harold Landry, Edge Boston College (18th on Mayocks top 100 and BPA) 3.75 Ronnie Harrison, SS Alabama (34th on Mayocks top 100 and BPA) 4.110 Maurice Hurst, DT Michigan (42nd on Mayocks top 100 and BPA) 5.159 Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, LB Oklahoma (64th on Mayocks top 100 and BPA) 6.185 Holton Hill, CB Texas (71st on Mayocks top 100 and BPA) 6.192 Allen Lazard, WR Iowa State (80th on Mayocks top 100 and BPA) 7.228 Quenton Meeks, DB Stanford (92nd on Mayocks top 100 and BPA) That's actually pretty sick. Obviously we have different needs from that point and less ammo in 2019, but let's look at that. I think Trent Brown would have had to have played LT, since no Kolton (other expensive signings like Joyner would have gone to Mack extension). I think in general we pick around 5 to 10 picks later by having edge rushers. With that in mind we might have taken: 1. Dexter Lawrence, NT Clemson (a different Clemson DL, except one to improve Mack instead of "replace" him) 1. Josh Jacobs, RB Alabama (Still trade Amari, because keeping Mack it's now very expensive) 2. Trayvon Mullen, CB Clemson 3. (get it back since we can't afford Antonio Brown) Terry McLaurin, WR Ohio State (needed a WR since trading Amari -- most Ruggs-like prospect in range) 4. Maxx Crosby, DE Eastern Michigan 4. Isaiah Johnson, CB Houston 4. Fabian Moreau, TE LSU 5. Mack Wilson, LB Alabama (free pick from no Antonio Brown trade, Raiders needed a LB so maybe?) 5. Hunter Renfrow, WR Clemson 7. Quinton Bell, DE Prairie View A&M UDFA Alec Ingold, FB I think we are better after 2020, but with Trent Brown missing time and no Kolton we pick in a similar range, maybe earlier if Carr missed (a) game(s). 1. Tristan Wirfs, OT Iowa 2. Jaylon Johnson, CB Utah (get this pick back because no Mack trade) 3. Bryan Edwards, WR South Carolina (over Bowden who was back to back picks, but Edwards would be more necessary [potential WR2 v. RB2] and we lack the back to back from Mack trade) 4. Tanner Muse, LB/S Clemson 4. John Simpson, G Clemson 4. Amik Robinson, CB Louisiana Tech 7. Gage Cervanka, G Clemson (from no Mack trade, he never made it to an NFL roster but Clemson maybe?) QB: Derek Carr, Nathan Peterman RB: Josh Jacobs, Devontae Booker, Jalen Richard FB: Alec Ingold WR: Terry McLaurin, Nelson Agholor (or Zay Jones or Rico Gafford?) WR: Allen Lazard, Bryan Edwards Slot: Hunter Renfrow TE: Darren Waller, Foster Moreau, Jason WittenLT: Tristan Wirfs, David Sharpe LG: Richie Incognito, John Simpson C : Rodney Hudson RG: Gabe Jackson RT: Trent Brown, Denzelle Good, Brandon Parker DT: Maurice Hurst, Jihad Ward? NT: Dexter Lawrence, Justin Ellis? DE: Denico Autry? Shelby Harris? Mario Edwards? Edge: Harold Landry, Maxx Crosby ILB: Cory Littleton (smaller 2020 cap hit between him and Kwiatkoski), Marquel Lee, Tanner Muse ILB: Raekwon McMillan, Nicholas Marrow, Mack Wilson Edge: Khalil Mack, Ogbonnia Okoronkwo CB: Trayvon Mullen, Holton Hill CB: Jaylon Johnson, Quenton Meeks Nickel: Isaiah Johnson / Amik Robinson FS: Minkah Fitzpatrick, Erik Harris SS: Ronnie Harrison, Jeff Heath LS: Trent Sieg K: Daniel Carlson P: AJ Cole Edited October 3, 2020 by Trojan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD1123 Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 That had to take a lot of thought. It was fun to read! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) I was going say that took a lot of thought. I just say the upgrade would have been Mack and the safeties....we wouldn’t be elite either way. Still in the same tier Edited October 3, 2020 by Humble_Beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 12 hours ago, Trojan said: If Mike Mayock was hired with Jon Gruden from the onset and Paul Guenther wasn't hired instead a generic multiple DC was hired that was absolutely stoked to work with Khalil Mack was hired. The Bears-Mack trade never occurs and as a result we have less money to spend in FA. This was, as others have said fun to read and speculate, you clearly put a lot of thought into this and it shows. The Mack trade really was a pivotal change of direction and I often wonder who we would have drafted if we'd re-signed him. Maybe Irvin doesn't quit on us and he's our SLB and we keep a 4-3 and use that #10 pick on Vita Vea or Payne. I really liked the Hankins pick up and Kwiatkoski so our front 7 might have look like; Mack, Hankins, Vea, Crosby Irvin, Kwiatkoski, Morrow That would be difficult to run on and have Hurst, Key and maybe Autry as rotation pass rushers....... Maybe we use our second on Orlando Brown now instead of Hall, keeping Penn for one last year at LT and sign Brown to be the LToTF? It gets the cogs in the brain in motion thinking of all the possible scenarios! 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverLining Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 DC-Paul Guenther would be gone asap if it was up to me. Marinelli would be given the rest of this season to pull it together, if not he can go too. It just seems like the defense is either an outdated scheme or the players just aren't good enough to run it, can't tell which. I'm stuck on who to replace them with. Wade Phillips would be interesting since we signed i believe two linebackers in the off-season in Littleton and Kwiatkowski that had their best performances as inside linebackers in a 3-4 defense which is what Phillips runs. The other i seen in a post cant remember from who but Kris Richard who i completely forgot about made a good argument, would love to see a really strong secondary like what seattle had. Just overly tired of seeing bad defensive play year in and year out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 2 hours ago, SilverLining said: DC-Paul Guenther would be gone asap if it was up to me. Marinelli would be given the rest of this season to pull it together, if not he can go too. It just seems like the defense is either an outdated scheme or the players just aren't good enough to run it, can't tell which. I'm stuck on who to replace them with. Wade Phillips would be interesting since we signed i believe two linebackers in the off-season in Littleton and Kwiatkowski that had their best performances as inside linebackers in a 3-4 defense which is what Phillips runs. The other i seen in a post cant remember from who but Kris Richard who i completely forgot about made a good argument, would love to see a really strong secondary like what seattle had. Just overly tired of seeing bad defensive play year in and year out. I just want someone that can fix the pass rush and let everything else trickle down from there. If we can get after the QB with 4 guys then we have a good chance at stopping everything else. If you replace Collins with a top 3T like Chris Jones this line can take it to the next level with a good DC. We might not be able to find an all pro at 3T but at least someone that commands attention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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