Week 4 GDT - Philadelphia Eagles at San Francisco 49ers

[49ersfan]

1 hour ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Roster is I think third oldest in the league. So that's concerning. But I don't feel it's as concerning a situation when the 49ers had a dominant team during the Harbaugh years with an older roster. Just due to the top brass going on at odds. That is when it all came crashing down. 

Also, I don't think last year's team was some all time great squad either. It was a good enough team to get to the Super Bowl, but not a team that was seemingly insurmountable like the Ravens or Chiefs. 

I'm still happy with the future of the roster, for the most part. Mostert, Samuel, Aiyuk, Kittle, Bosa, Armstead, Kinlaw, Warner, Greenlaw, Alexander will all still be under 30 even next season. 

30+ contributors next season include Jimmy G, Jimmie Ward, Robbie Gould, and Weston Richburg. 

Trent Williams & Richard Sherman are also key contributors over 30, but they're UFA's. However, it might be worth it to bring them back, depending on how the cap goes. Dee Ford will also be 30 next season, however who knows what we'll do with him 

 

[N4L]

3 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

See, I don't see it this way at all. You wouldn't have your best receiver pass block if you didn't need him to. When we are in OBVIOUS passing situations, the pass protection does not hold up. Shanny is able to manipulate it enough during the game with his scheme and play calling, but that goes out the window when you HAVE to pass. Then of course Jimmy's quick release does the trick the other times as he won't let the pass rush get to him as he will get rid of it before they can. With Jimmy back there, I'm sure the pass blocking will look solid enough the rest of the way, but that doesn't mean it IS solid, just that Jimmy is making it look that way. This is an area that needs to be improved upon this offseason. 

I think you are missing my point on both fronts.

1) Our OL has taken a huge step back from last season

2) Keeping kittle in to block occasionally is not a bad thing because he takes 2 defenders out of the play. That leaves us with a numerical advantage elsewhere. Its not like we had no one else to throw to. Sanders and Deebo were good enough to get it done last year. 

 

Our OL had a lot of injuries last year, so there were definitely times it wasnt top 10, but when we had all of our guys in the lineup, it was in the top third of OL play in the league. Also, great run blocking unit and we ran the ball a ton in 2019. so, their grade should reflect that fact. If I was taking a test and 70% of it was math, and I got 100% on the math section with a 0 elsewhere, I would get a 70% on the test. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, N4L said:

I think you are missing my point on both fronts.

1) Our OL has taken a huge step back from last season

2) Keeping kittle in to block occasionally is not a bad thing because he takes 2 defenders out of the play. That leaves us with a numerical advantage elsewhere. Its not like we had no one else to throw to. Sanders and Deebo were good enough to get it done last year. 

Our OL had a lot of injuries last year, so there were definitely times it wasnt top 10, but when we had all of our guys in the lineup, it was in the top third of OL play in the league. Also, great run blocking unit and we ran the ball a ton in 2019. so, their grade should reflect that fact. If I was taking a test and 70% of it was math, and I got 100% on the math section with a 0 elsewhere, I would get a 70% on the test. 

No, I don't think I'm missing what you're saying. And there actually isn't much of a difference between our OL this season compared to last season. Williams had his first bad game but Staley had a few of them himself last year. Tomlinson is still the same player, our RG has always been a problem and McGlinchey had some rough rough games last year as well. Our run blocking late in the season was great, but before that it was hit and miss....And it's always been that way. Explosive plays by Breida/Mostert made the stats look better than on a play by play basis. 

But in terms of pass blocking? No, it has never been great and it's staying that way this season. You don't just take Kittle out of the way to create a numerical advantage. I don't agree with that. You WANT Kittle to be the #1 option on a big play like vs NO. If Kittle is running a route and is double teamed, you create an advantage that way anyways. Sorry brotha, not going to get with your logic there. 

Speaking of Kittle, so good to see him back and healthy. Just a different kind of beast. 

[NFL Network]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

3 years I think is a relatively reasonable expectation? 

The entire team will get a pass this year. Next year there will be a lot of turnover, and I think its possible that the window is already closed. The team could be meh, and then they will be facing a "make or break year" in 2022 with Jimmy before ultimately going in another direction 2023 if the season doesn't go well. 

and I believe that this is worst case scenario for the team. Otherwise, there's no telling how it could go. 

Ok I'm glad you said "make or break" season. If you remember back in 1994 it was considered a "make or break" season as it was SB win or bust b/c they couldn't get over the Dallas Cowboys in the previous 2 NFC title games and thus had to bring in serious reinforcements. So do you think the Niners will ever head into a regular season with those kind of expectations again?

The window of opportunity is very short these days and if you don't make the most out of your chances you basically come up empty handed. The reason why teams such as the Packers, Seahawks, Saints, and now Chiefs are all likely SB winning suspects at the start of each regular season has to do with who's at QB. For example after last years NFC title game I said to myself even though the Niners thrashed the Packers for half of the game I still would give the Packers a better chance to win the SB in 2020 for the shear fact that Aaron Rodgers is on their squad. Now fast forward to 2020 and it's highly unlikely that any NFC team in the SB will be someone other than Packers & Seahawks. And the answer is mainly b/c of the QB's whom those teams have and how they can mask all the other flaws that those teams have on both sides of the ball.

[49erurtaza]

 

[49erurtaza]

12 minutes ago, NFL Network said:

Ok I'm glad you said "make or break" season. If you remember back in 1994 it was considered a "make or break" season as it was SB win or bust b/c they couldn't get over the Dallas Cowboys in the previous 2 NFC title games and thus had to bring in serious reinforcements. So do you think the Niners will ever head into a regular season with those kind of expectations again?

The window of opportunity is very short these days and if you don't make the most out of your chances you basically come up empty handed. The reason why teams such as the Packers, Seahawks, Saints, and now Chiefs are all likely SB winning suspects at the start of each regular season has to do with who's at QB. For example after last years NFC title game I said to myself even though the Niners thrashed the Packers for half of the game I still would give the Packers a better chance to win the SB in 2020 for the shear fact that Aaron Rodgers is on their squad. Now fast forward to 2020 and it's highly unlikely that any NFC team in the SB will be someone other than Packers & Seahawks. And the answer is mainly b/c of the QB's whom those teams have and how they can mask all the other flaws that those teams have on both sides of the ball.

And yet nether of them will win the Superbowl.

[NFL Network]

2 minutes ago, 49erurtaza said:

And yet nether of them will win the Superbowl.

I can't see any other team aside from Packers & Seahawks winning NFC. Maybe Bucs but I don't trust their secondary and Tom is 43.

I do agree that the Chiefs will beat any NFC team in the SB. Really I can't see anyone outside of Chiefs, Packers or Seahawks winning it all right now. Maybe the Steelers but that's a stretch b/c Big Ben might not be the same Big Ben. I have no confidence in teams such as Titan, Patriots & Colts in the AFC winning it all as just pure fodder. Maybe the Bills but sooner or later Josh Allen will revert back to the old Josh Allen aka Mitchell Trubisky. 

[757-NINER]

29 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

No, I don't think I'm missing what you're saying. And there actually isn't much of a difference between our OL this season compared to last season. Williams had his first bad game but Staley had a few of them himself last year. Tomlinson is still the same player, our RG has always been a problem and McGlinchey had some rough rough games last year as well. Our run blocking late in the season was great, but before that it was hit and miss....And it's always been that way. Explosive plays by Breida/Mostert made the stats look better than on a play by play basis. 

But in terms of pass blocking? No, it has never been great and it's staying that way this season. You don't just take Kittle out of the way to create a numerical advantage. I don't agree with that. You WANT Kittle to be the #1 option on a big play like vs NO. If Kittle is running a route and is double teamed, you create an advantage that way anyways. Sorry brotha, not going to get with your logic there. 

Speaking of Kittle, so good to see him back and healthy. Just a different kind of beast. 

 

Yea, at no point last season did I believe we could pass-protect at a even a decent clip. 

The thing with our line is their run-blocking is soooooooo intrustemental to our passing game and the looks we create off the play-action. So it seems we covet lineman who can get to second level and reach the LBs on those stretch plays, more than ANYTHING else. Basically if you're great for this scheme from a zone-blocking run game perspective, you're going to hold more value for us, more than you probably would as a overall talent. McG is a perfect case study for that. Helluva run blocker. Absolutely dreadful as a pass-protector.

I don't know why it seems to be so hard for us to find guys who both fit the run blocking scheme AND can be stout enough in pass-pro. Its like we get one or the other. Williams amd Tomlinson are probably the only two guys who are stout enough in both areas. The other 3 are strictly here for the run game only. And I won't dump on Brunskill too much becasue he'a a tackle who's being forced to play inside. That's not on him. No other team would even dare ask him to try to block 3-Techs and NTs on a consistent basis. 

Its a dilemma Shanny is going to have to find a way to navigate. I understand the importance the run game is to the offense as a whole. So maybe us spending some of our early round picks on interior O-Lineman instead of WRs might alleviate some of the burden. But the current formula for securing talent elsewhere and just 'getting by" with OGs and centers that make up the bottom half of your roster doesn't seem feasible for long-term success. 

[NFL Network]

2 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

 

Yea, at no point last season did I believe we could pass-protect at a even a decent clip. 

The thing with our line is their run-blocking is soooooooo intrustemental to our passing game and the looks we create off the play-action. So it seems we covet lineman who can get to second level and reach the LBs on those stretch plays, more than ANYTHING else. Basically if you're great for this scheme from a zone-blocking run game perspective, you're going to hold more value for us, more than you probably would as a overall talent. McG is a perfect case study for that. Helluva run blocker. Absolutely dreadful as a pass-protector.

I don't know why it seems to be so hard for us to find guys who both fit the run blocking scheme AND can be stout enough in pass-pro. Its like we get one or the other. Williams amd Tomlinson are probably the only two guys who are stout enough in both areas. The other 3 are strictly here for the run game only. And I won't dump on Brunskill too much becasue he'a a tackle who's being forced to play inside. That's not on him. No other team would even dare ask him to try to block 3-Techs and NTs on a consistent basis. 

Its a dilemma Shanny is going to have to find a way to navigate. I understand the importance the run game is to the offense as a whole. So maybe us spending some of our early round picks on interior O-Lineman instead of WRs might alleviate some of the burden. But the current formula for securing talent elsewhere and just 'getting by" with OGs and centers that make up the bottom half of your roster doesn't seem feasible for long-term success. 

If the Niners o-line could've pass blocked better on the possession in the SB in the 4th quarter with a 20-10 lead they would've won the SB but instead let Chiefs DT Chris Jones disrupt the pocket. Also I think the Chiefs loaded the box to take away the run on that drive and thus it faltered and then the SB was done shortly after.

[N4L]

@J-ALL-DAY are you saying that the OL this year has not regressed?

We obviously did have some times when the pass pro was not good last year but there was a lot of good plays from that group as well. It was absolutely better last year than it has been this year. @Forge and I have talked about how bad the OL has looked after every single game this year. Sure, we had a lot of issues last year, but we also were less healthy last year on the line and they still did better than this group we are rolling out now.

McG has regressed to the point he isnt a viable starter. Brunskill is a T playing G and doing a poor job at it. Tomlinson has regressed. Garland is worse this year than last. Williams has been the lone bright spot, and he struggled last night. 

I am very worried because a lot of the mistakes seem physical rather than mental. Not sure what to do with this group. 

 

[Chrissooner49er]

It looked to me like Brunskill was the weakest link last night. I don't believe he is a multi-role OL. He is strictly an OT. We need some power inside and, like Person, Brunskill doesn't have it. 

Wow, did Trent Williams have a brain fart or two last night!? Unbelievable. 

And it's plain how badly we need Bosa and Ford. Not to discredit other guys, but those 2 are dynamic (well, Ford has flashed some dynamic play).

[Forge]

13 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

It looked to me like Brunskill was the weakest link last night. I don't believe he is a multi-role OL. He is strictly an OT. We need some power inside and, like Person, Brunskill doesn't have it. 

 

Feel like he's been the weak link every game this year. He's brutal at the guard spot. At some point, we have to move on and try Mckivitz. Put him back at swing tackle role. 

14 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Wow, did Trent Williams have a brain fart or two last night!? Unbelievable. 

 

I'll give some credit to Barnett, who was an excellent pass rusher coming out and a first round pick, but hot damn, Williams did not play well just independent of Barnett's performance. Thankfully, I Don't think that will be common. Williams still a super high quality tackle, just a bad game. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

28 minutes ago, N4L said:

@J-ALL-DAY are you saying that the OL this year has not regressed?

We obviously did have some times when the pass pro was not good last year but there was a lot of good plays from that group as well. It was absolutely better last year than it has been this year. @Forge and I have talked about how bad the OL has looked after every single game this year. Sure, we had a lot of issues last year, but we also were less healthy last year on the line and they still did better than this group we are rolling out now.

McG has regressed to the point he isnt a viable starter. Brunskill is a T playing G and doing a poor job at it. Tomlinson has regressed. Garland is worse this year than last. Williams has been the lone bright spot, and he struggled last night. 

I am very worried because a lot of the mistakes seem physical rather than mental. Not sure what to do with this group. 

What I'm saying is there is very little difference between the OL this year compared to last year in pass protection. McGlinchey had his fair share of struggles last season, especially to start the season. Brunskill has been bad, but let's not act like our RG play last year was good at all. It's looking worse right now since the team has so many injuries and is not nearly as dominant. That is putting the team is more passing situations and that's where the OL gets exposed badly. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

So Williams is going to likely go on the IR with a sprained knee. I wonder if they go Moseley in the slot when Sherman/Spoon return? Verrett is playing well and can continue playing on the outside. 

Which edge rusher do we sign now that Ansah is out for the season? 

[Forge]

11 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

So Williams is going to likely go on the IR with a sprained knee. I wonder if they go Moseley in the slot when Sherman/Spoon return? Verrett is playing well and can continue playing on the outside. 

Which edge rusher do we sign now that Ansah is out for the season? 

We resigned Taylor, right? Would just assume they stick with that

Sheard?