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Week 4 GDT: Saints (1-2) at Lions (1-2)


Karnage84

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8 hours ago, Louis Friend said:

I thought it was unnecessary. I truly wonder what went through Patricias mind other than trying to shave points. 

I thought the early challenge was the dumber of the two decisions, but didn't understand the 2 point conversion either. 

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16 hours ago, Nnivolcm said:

What does a mid (early) season firing accomplish? I've been on the replace Patricia train for a while, but I don't see the point of a mid season firing.

What is the benefit of keeping Patricia for the remainder of the season? What is the plus side to keeping him until the end of the year?

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1 minute ago, Karnage84 said:

What is the benefit of keeping Patricia for the remainder of the season? What is the plus side to keeping him until the end of the year?

The big one - at least for me - is to see if he really doesn't have what it takes, and if it really is time to rebuild. (If we were 2-2, I'm not sure that would be the consensus.)

We've got an easy slate of games coming up. It wouldn't be out of the question to be sitting at 4-4 or 5-3.

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17 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

The big one - at least for me - is to see if he really doesn't have what it takes, and if it really is time to rebuild. (If we were 2-2, I'm not sure that would be the consensus.)

We've got an easy slate of games coming up. It wouldn't be out of the question to be sitting at 4-4 or 5-3.

For me, even if we were 2-2, I'd be for MP's firing. This team doesn't look good at all and I'm tired of "lucky" wins. My issue isn't Swift dropping the ball. My issue is letting Tribustinky back into the game so we have to have a last second TD to win. This is Detroit's identity.   I understand a win is a win, but we never look good except at punter. Our defense doesn't look good at any position or scheme.  Stafford has been asked to carry this team for ever and he jumps out to early leads, just to let the defense flounder it. If he has an off game, forget about it.  If he tries to start forcing stuff out of desperation, forget about it. We have no running game to speak of unless it's AP.  Here is the question for me, is it BQ,  MP or both?  Well, if BQ gets fired MP won't last under the new regime so the only thing I'm checking is if it was MP. But I still come back to this team never looking good under MP, even when they win with the exception of one game against New England.

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Just now, LionArkie said:

For me, even if we were 2-2, I'd be for MP's firing. This team doesn't look good at all and I'm tired of "lucky" wins. My issue isn't Swift dropping the ball. My issue is letting Tribustinky back into the game so we have to have a last second TD to win. This is Detroit's identity.   I understand a win is a win, but we never look good except at punter. Our defense doesn't look good at any position or scheme.  Stafford has been asked to carry this team for ever and he jumps out to early leads, just to let them go. If he has an off game, forget about it.  If he tries to start forcing stuff out of desperation, forget about it. We have no running game to speak of unless it's AP.  Here is the question for me, is it BQ  MP or both?  Well, if BQ gets fired MP won't last under the new regime so the only thing I'm checking is if it was MP. But I still come back to this team never looking good under MP, even when they win with the exception of one game against New England.

The Saints are a pretty good team, and the Packers seem to be one of the better teams in the league. If we win the next 3, things will certainly feel different.

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Just now, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

The Saints are a pretty good team, and the Packers seem to be one of the better teams in the league. If we win the next 3, things will certainly feel different.

For me, it still depends on how they win.  I really don't want to be the best turd of the bunch.

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Just now, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

The big one - at least for me - is to see if he really doesn't have what it takes, and if it really is time to rebuild. (If we were 2-2, I'm not sure that would be the consensus.)

We've got an easy slate of games coming up. It wouldn't be out of the question to be sitting at 4-4 or 5-3.

Sorry TL. You and I generally have been on the same page with this but at this point I feel that we have seen enough over the last 2 years and 4 games. This Lions team is the one that Patricia and Quinn wanted to build towards when he was first hired. 

The defense can't defend against the run and it can't defend against the pass. Outside of AP, we're struggling to effectively run the ball. Stafford is essentially carrying the whole team yet again. He might be struggling a bit after coming back from the back injury but he's been carrying this team for far too long. 

We need to see what the team's talent level is separate from Patricia IMO. We have two parts - Quinn and Patricia. Is Quinn giving Patricia decent players and they aren't being developed? 

If they don't get rid of Patricia it would not shock me to see them fire Undlin. He doesn't deserve to be fired any more than Patricia deserves to stay. Something is going to get shaken up over the next two weeks. 

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7 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

For me, it still depends on how they win.  I really don't want to be the best turd of the bunch.

If we went 10-6 and won every game by 1 point, we'd still be a 10-6 team and looking at the playoffs. If we went 6-10 and lost every game by 1 point, we'd be saying that they're close but just can't get it done. Winning matters. If you're consistently winning close games then eventually that pendulum is likely going to swing. 

As long as they get it done, it doesn't really matter how they did it. 

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9 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Sorry TL. You and I generally have been on the same page with this but at this point I feel that we have seen enough over the last 2 years and 4 games. This Lions team is the one that Patricia and Quinn wanted to build towards when he was first hired. 

The defense can't defend against the run and it can't defend against the pass. Outside of AP, we're struggling to effectively run the ball. Stafford is essentially carrying the whole team yet again. He might be struggling a bit after coming back from the back injury but he's been carrying this team for far too long. 

We need to see what the team's talent level is separate from Patricia IMO. We have two parts - Quinn and Patricia. Is Quinn giving Patricia decent players and they aren't being developed? 

If they don't get rid of Patricia it would not shock me to see them fire Undlin. He doesn't deserve to be fired any more than Patricia deserves to stay. Something is going to get shaken up over the next two weeks. 

This is where I'm at as well.  Now, in no way do I want BQ and deep down (well maybe not that deep) I want to move on from him.

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1 minute ago, Karnage84 said:

Sorry TL. You and I generally have been on the same page with this but at this point I feel that we have seen enough over the last 2 years and 4 games. This Lions team is the one that Patricia and Quinn wanted to build towards when he was first hired. 

The defense can't defend against the run and it can't defend against the pass. Outside of AP, we're struggling to effectively run the ball. Stafford is essentially carrying the whole team yet again. He might be struggling a bit after coming back from the back injury but he's been carrying this team for far too long. 

We need to see what the team's talent level is separate from Patricia IMO. We have two parts - Quinn and Patricia. Is Quinn giving Patricia decent players and they aren't being developed? 

If they don't get rid of Patricia it would not shock me to see them fire Undlin. He doesn't deserve to be fired any more than Patricia deserves to stay. Something is going to get shaken up over the next two weeks. 

Yeah, there's a lot to be concerned about.

I don't count the second half of last year. They were competitive with bad quarterbacks under center. This whole "lost 12 of their last 13 games" line... it's absurd. Yes, we lost with Blough under center. I wanted them to lose with Blough under center. I won't hold that against Patricia.

I believe that a rebuild should get 3 years. (And, yes, this is a rebuild. It always was. Getting hung up on the label that Quinn put on it doesn't change the fact that rebuilding the defense would take time.) This is year 3. It's Patricia's job to put this team in position to win games: he did that week 1. Before the season, I would've thought we may lose games against the Packers and Saints. If, after the bye week, we win 3 of those next 4 games, and find ourselves competing for an expanded playoff spot, it'll make a difference.

I don't get rid of Patricia until we're mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

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1 minute ago, Karnage84 said:

If we went 10-6 and won every game by 1 point, we'd still be a 10-6 team and looking at the playoffs. If we went 6-10 and lost every game by 1 point, we'd be saying that they're close but just can't get it done. Winning matters. If you're consistently winning close games then eventually that pendulum is likely going to swing. 

As long as they get it done, it doesn't really matter how they did it. 

To some degree, yes. I don't like first round wild card losses. Isn't that the reason we moved on from Caldwell which both you and I agreed was the right move?

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2 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Yeah, there's a lot to be concerned about.

I don't count the second half of last year. They were competitive with bad quarterbacks under center. This whole "lost 12 of their last 13 games" line... it's absurd. Yes, we lost with Blough under center. I wanted them to lose with Blough under center. I won't hold that against Patricia.

I believe that a rebuild should get 3 years. (And, yes, this is a rebuild. It always was. Getting hung up on the label that Quinn put on it doesn't change the fact that rebuilding the defense would take time.) This is year 3. It's Patricia's job to put this team in position to win games: he did that week 1. Before the season, I would've thought we may lose games against the Packers and Saints. If, after the bye week, we win 3 of those next 4 games, and find ourselves competing for an expanded playoff spot, it'll make a difference.

I don't get rid of Patricia until we're mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

I do agree with you, but at year 3 I believe there should be some progress being made. I think we are going in the wrong direction.

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let me rephrase. I agree a team should be alotted 5 years for a complete overhaul.  If I'm an owner, I want to see something around year 3 that we are moving in the right direction.  Year 5, we better be competing for playoffs and division championships. If I don't see it in year 3, I'm saving myself two years and going with someone else.

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2 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

I do agree with you, but at year 3 I believe there should be some progress being made. I think we are going in the wrong direction.

I agree that it looks that way right now. (Because it does.) If we rattle off a handful of wins against equal or lesser teams, it might look differently.

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Just now, LionArkie said:

To some degree, yes. I don't like first round wild card losses. Isn't that the reason we moved on from Caldwell which both you and I agreed was the right move?

It is but you have to build on something. We're far from even being in that position. If Detroit is winning 10-6 year after year and winning close games time after time.. I'll gladly take it over this series of blown double digit leads. 

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