The Tom Brady Thread

[Apparition]

1 minute ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

Oh, that's right: Elway's defense carried the team in the 80's. The defense that allowed 39, 42, and 55 points in three SB's. The defense that almost blew a 28-10 lead in the 1987 AFC Title Game. Yeah, they were great.

Weird that you got that specific right off the bat when I made no such mention, but okay. 🤨

[AkronsWitness]

39 minutes ago, Starless said:

I'm REALLY curious how this guy continues to put Elway on such a pedestal when he was so average for so much of his career (and downright bad in the early 90s).

Elway led the league in passing in 1993 and was second in TDs. I will tell you where his defenses ranked in the early 90s

90'- 20th

91- 24th

92'- 26th

93'- 23rd

94'- 32nd

95'- 17th

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by AkronsWitness

[Apparition]

Just now, AkronsWitness said:

Elway led the league in passing in 1993 and was second in TDs. I will tell you where his defenses ranked in the early 90s

90'- 20th

91- 24th

92'- 26th

93'- 23rd

94'- 32nd

95'- 17th

 

 

He posted average-to-below-average numbers from '88 to '92

I'm not sure where you're getting those defensive rankings, because they were #3 in points, #5 in yards and #4 in DVOA in 1991.

[ChazStandard]

5 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

I mean, really? They were a defensive team last year with a soft schedule that then lost a number of key starters on defense during the off-season and added next to nothing.

They were a defensive team, but they still had a top ten scoring offense, and that was entirely because of Brady. Because it’s the Patriots everyone just sort expects them to get 12 wins and take the division, but the fact they did that last year was pretty miraculous. They had no TEs, they had barely any run game, they lost 3/5 starters on the OL (and started Marshall Newhouse for most of the year), their WR corps was shredded and their best WR lead the league in drops.

That exact same offense, plus getting some starting OL back, is now ranked 29th in points.

[SteelKing728]

Why does everybody spell out GOAT as something called a "Tom Brady"?

[CP3MVP]

Now the new narrative is Tampa apparently is a “super team” 

[lancerman]

8 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

Brady is perfect man Bellicheck wouldn't be employed without him man you're totally right.

Cam Newton is amazing man I'm shocked he can't sniff Tom's Jock Strap.

 

What’s Belichick’s record without Brady? He has 5 years in Cleveland.. Oh don’t want to count that? Okay he has 44 games in NE without him. Just in NE he’s on the verge of having only his 4th season without making the playoffs. Weird that his 3 full seasons without Brady account for 75% of the time he missed the playoffs here. 
 

For years the story was “oh he had Belichick” as a way to dismiss his accomplishments. Well he left and basically changed the trajectory of two franchises. Even in a crappy team he still got his usual 12 wins 

[lancerman]

8 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

I mean, really? They were a defensive team last year with a soft schedule that then lost a number of key starters on defense during the off-season and added next to nothing.

Our defense isn’t that bad this year. They basically did the same thing to the Chiefs that they did in 2018. Honestly probably better considering they held them off longer. The QB’s they started completely neutered then in that game. We also didn’t give up a single TD vs the Broncos. Those are two losses that are realistically wins with even remotely competent QB play. Then you had a Seattle game that came down to the last play. Swap Brady in there, that’s 2-3 wins and all of a sudden they are in the playoff hunt. 
 

Yeah he makes a difference. Tampa Bay had the same defense last year. They were high in DVOA. Nobody ever talked about it because their QB kept hanging them out to dry. Weird how Tom Brady comes to town, he doesn’t keep putting them on their back foot and all the defensive players are saying how much he injects into the game that improves. It’s a symbiotic game. It’s like all those years this forum used to say “the Pats defense isn’t that good, look at their DVOA” but then their PPG was great. 2016 comes to mind. That’s because the offense can constantly keep field position in check, maintain time of possession and force the opposing team into higher risk situations to remain in the game 

It’s always been that way. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by lancerman

[Jlowe22]

2 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

Now the new narrative is Tampa apparently is a “super team” 

Well super team depends on what you consider super team, but it's true Tampa is a great team.  We all said last year that Tampa would be scary as **** with good QB play.  They would have been neck and neck with the Saints if not flat out better.  I like their defense for sure better.  

[iknowcool]

3 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

Now the new narrative is Tampa apparently is a “super team” 

I mean, it is true.

Brady being the GOAT and Tampa being dumb stacked can both be true.

Hell think about how competitive they were last year despite having a QB throw 30 INTs.  Tampa should be ashamed if they don’t win a Super Bowl.

[7DnBrnc53]

8 hours ago, Starless said:

He posted average-to-below-average numbers from '88 to '92

I'm not sure where you're getting those defensive rankings, because they were #3 in points, #5 in yards and #4 in DVOA in 1991.

For the record, here was where Denver's D rated in points allowed from 88-92: 20th, 1st, 23rd, 3rd, and 19th. Some good years (the 91 defense may have been the best out of those defenses. What they did to the Bills in the AFC Title Game was impressive) mixed in with some terrible ones.

Elway's problem, though, was the offensive scheme. Dan Reeves was no offensive genius. When he left, John's numbers greatly improved when he started working with his college offensive coach (Jim Fassel).

It was much harder to play QB back then. From 2003-on, you really can't take the numbers QB's put up as serious because the game has become way too offensive-friendly. Brady is doing a good job this year, but he isn't the only guy to go somewhere else and succeed. Manning did as well (leading Denver to two SB's). Also, Rivers is 4-2 so far in Indianapolis.

 

 

 

[CP3MVP]

26 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

Well super team depends on what you consider super team, but it's true Tampa is a great team.  We all said last year that Tampa would be scary as **** with good QB play.  They would have been neck and neck with the Saints if not flat out better.  I like their defense for sure better.  

You can say that about a lot of teams, that they would be good with good QB Play. 
 

 

[CP3MVP]

20 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

I mean, it is true.

Brady being the GOAT and Tampa being dumb stacked can both be true.

Hell think about how competitive they were last year despite having a QB throw 30 INTs.  Tampa should be ashamed if they don’t win a Super Bowl.

Bad teams are bad largely because they have bad QBs. The only thing really unique about Winston’s situation is the unusually long leash he was given to throw all those interceptions. 

Now if they don’t win they should be “ashamed”, that’s interesting. What was your prediction for Tampa pre season? If you thought they were goin 8-8 pre season, I don’t wanna here crap about how they’re “stacked” now.

Edited October 28, 2020 by CP3MVP

[Jlowe22]

1 minute ago, CP3MVP said:

You can say that about a lot of teams, that they would be good with good QB Play. 
 

 

Every team gets better with better QB play, but not every team becomes scary like Tampa. 

Brady isn't dumb, he went to Tampa for a reason, the same reason Manning went to Denver.  

 

[iknowcool]

1 minute ago, CP3MVP said:

Bad teams are bad largely because they have bad QBs. The only thing really unique about Winston’s situation is the unusually long leash he was given to throw all those interceptions. 

Now if they don’t win they should be “ashamed”, that’s interesting. What was your prediction for Tampa pre season? If you thought they were goin 8-8 pre season, I don’t wanna here crap about how they’re “stacked” now.

Are you suggesting they aren't an extremely talented team?  

Where do you think they rank in the league, talent-wise?  What teams are you putting ahead of them?

Yes, a team that has went all-in on a Super Bowl should be ashamed if they don't win.  They signed Brady.  They signed AB.  They signed Fournette.  They signed Gronk.  They already had Mike Evans and Chris Godwin.  They have Ronald Jones starting to play up to his potential.  And they have had, undoubtedly, the best run defense in the NFL the last 2 years.  And a pass defense that is in the top 10 right now.

But I am sure you are going to convince me that they aren't a stacked team... and for what, really?  I am not suggesting that this takes away from Tom Brady.  Dude's great.  We know that.  But don't act like Tampa isn't freakin' stacked.  This is a dominant team, both talent-wise and performance-wise.  And they just signed arguably the best WR of the last decade, who given his skill-set likely can still perform at a damn high level at 32 years old.