DerbyRam Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 21 hours ago, upriser7 said: What... that's crazy?! I thought Jared Goff was the only QB in the NFL that had support from his coaching staff. I'm positively positive that this is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 30 minutes ago, Saint_James said: Yeah yeah yeah I get it, he has a resume. Lord knows we can't discuss Tom Brady without someone rushing to rub his rings in our faces.... We get it, thanks. If you want to discuss Tom Brady rationally, which is what was going on before you came in with absurd blind hate, I’m all game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Archimedes said: If you want to discuss Tom Brady rationally, which is what was going on before you came in with absurd blind hate, I’m all game. I see some others here who aren't Brady fans either, warms my heart. I'm not alone Hard to have a rational discussion though when you and others will pull the "LMAO HE HAS SIX RINGS OMG SHUT UP!!!" routine whenever any criticism is levied at Tom Brady. The first chance you got, that's exactly what you did. You didn't even TRY to debate my points but want to imply I'm the irrational one, doesn't seem on the level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUGmen Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) Has Arians put an blame any himself yet? I am all for HC not catering to their star players, but it’s like everyday he’s calling out Tom. Edited November 25, 2020 by RUGmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, RUGmen said: Has Arians put an blame any himself yet? I am all for HC not catering to their star players, but it’s like everyday he’s calling out Tom. Where else would the blame lie though? It's not the plays, it's not the offense, it's certainly not the roster of talent they've given the guy. At the end of the day the quarterback is ultimately who has to execute the offense. Edited November 25, 2020 by Saint_James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUGmen Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 15 minutes ago, Saint_James said: Where else would the blame lie though? It's not the plays, it's not the offense, it's certainly not the roster of talent they've given the guy. At the end of the day the quarterback is ultimately who has to execute the offense. The job of the coaching staff is to put their QB in a situation that fits their strength not their weaknesses. Whether Brady is playing badly or not doesn’t give Arians a pass. When your QB is 0-20 on vertical plays you don’t continue to run that same offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, RUGmen said: The job of the coaching staff is to put their QB in a situation that fits their strength not their weaknesses. Whether Brady is playing badly or not doesn’t give Arians a pass. When your QB is 0-20 on vertical plays you don’t continue to run that same offense. Yeah. Apparently it's Leftwich, he calls either a run or a deep pass on first down almost all the time. Neither of which make the most of Brady's ability. He's always finding himself in 2nd and long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 minute ago, RUGmen said: The job of the coaching staff is to put their QB in a situation that fits their strength not their weaknesses. Whether Brady is playing badly or not doesn’t give Arians a pass. When your QB is 0-20 on vertical plays you don’t continue to run that same offense. Well I would agree with you in that it was pretty stupid to give away a 26 year old 5k passing QB for a 43 year old guy who relied on great defense and short passes to win games. But the revelation that Brady himself was calling those plays and was still throwing those passes?? Not sure how I can blame the coach on that one. Brady is the "GOAT" right? He's allowed to call audibles, check down to guys, whatever. Also we KNOW Brady was the one who lobbied to get Antonio Brown on the team. Bruce flat out didn't want him there. Why would you want an Antonio Brown unless you wanted a home-run deep threat to throw to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asciimo Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Saint_James said: Well I would agree with you in that it was pretty stupid to give away a 26 year old 5k passing QB for a 43 year old guy who relied on great defense and short passes to win games. But the revelation that Brady himself was calling those plays and was still throwing those passes?? Not sure how I can blame the coach on that one. Brady is the "GOAT" right? He's allowed to call audibles, check down to guys, whatever. Also we KNOW Brady was the one who lobbied to get Antonio Brown on the team. Bruce flat out didn't want him there. Why would you want an Antonio Brown unless you wanted a home-run deep threat to throw to? yes, he is the unquestionable GOAT and a few seasons way past his prime isn't going to change that legacy. also brees is fringe top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Asciimo said: yes, he is the unquestionable GOAT and a few seasons way past his prime isn't going to change that legacy. also brees is fringe top 10. Drew Brees just swept Tom Brady and he's 5-2 lifetime against the "goat". And yes I'm taking your obvious troll bait but personally I view neither of those guys as the "GOAT". The GOAT is Joe Montana and it's not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 37 minutes ago, Saint_James said: I see some others here who aren't Brady fans either, warms my heart. I'm not alone Hard to have a rational discussion though when you and others will pull the "LMAO HE HAS SIX RINGS OMG SHUT UP!!!" routine whenever any criticism is levied at Tom Brady. The first chance you got, that's exactly what you did. You didn't even TRY to debate my points but want to imply I'm the irrational one, doesn't seem on the level. Dude... Please stop playing the victim role. We were having a rational discussion about Tom Brady’s arm strength declining, which is completely normal for a 43 year old qb. Then you bizarrely jumped and called that an excuse, and even then you actually had the nerve to completely dismiss his HOF career, based off what’s going on this season. And while you keep complaining about me pointing out his rings, I also pointed out his MVPs and SB MVPs. There are no “ok” players in NFL history that have multiple of either of those awards, let alone multiple of both. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Archimedes said: Dude... Please stop playing the victim role. We were having a rational discussion about Tom Brady’s arm strength declining, which is completely normal for a 43 year old qb. Then you bizarrely jumped and called that an excuse, and even then you actually had the nerve to completely dismiss his HOF career, based off what’s going on this season. And while you keep complaining about me pointing out his rings, I also pointed out his MVPs and SB MVPs. There are no “ok” players in NFL history that have multiple of either of those awards, let alone multiple of both. When Drew Brees misses a deep ball, it's always horribly underthrown. We've known for years Drew's arm is declining. I'm seeing Tom Brady overthrow guys by 5 or 10 yards on deep shots. And that's arm strength declining?? I feel I'm being completely rational. It's just what you guys are saying doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Saint_James said: When Drew Brees misses a deep ball, it's always horribly underthrown. We've known for years Drew's arm is declining. I'm seeing Tom Brady overthrow guys by 5 or 10 yards on deep shots. And that's arm strength declining?? I feel I'm being completely rational. It's just what you guys are saying doesn't make sense. Dude, JLowe22 and I addressed exactly what you’re saying, so here it is again: “Yea, another thing people don't realize, when you get old and lose arm strength, it doesn't mean you can't throw the ball hard or far. But it takes more effort to do so, and accuracy suffers as a result. “ Also, I cited a former NFL qb who also talked about this very thing. Worsening accuracy on deeper throws is also a sign of declining arm strength. Of course, I also pointed out his decision making at times has been suspect as well. Edited November 25, 2020 by Archimedes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, Archimedes said: Dude, JLowe22 and I addressed exactly what you’re saying, so here it is again: “Yea, another thing people don't realize, when you get old and lose arm strength, it doesn't mean you can't throw the ball hard or far. But it takes more effort to do so, and accuracy suffers as a result. “ Also, I cited a former NFL qb who also talked about this very thing. Worsening accuracy on deeper throws is also a sign of declining arm strength. Of course, I also pointed out his decision making at times has been suspect as well. That's.....specious logic at best. "Accuracy" can mean many things. Tom was specifically other-throwing guys against the Rams on very deep passes. That speaks to ample arm strength, just common sense. There are much better ways to quantify arm strength than a 45 yard go-route as well. Specifically the "deep-out" route which is more generally used to gauge a QB's arm as it requires high velocity out to the sidelines out to 20'ish yards. Did you watch him in that Giants game? I thought he took Scottie Miller's hands off with that one pass. Arians said it best: He hits those deep passes in practice, the arm is fine. The only difference is Brady KNOWS he won't be hit in practice. I agree with you about his decision making, I do not agree that arm strength is the issue here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 11 minutes ago, Saint_James said: That's.....specious logic at best. "Accuracy" can mean many things. Tom was specifically other-throwing guys against the Rams on very deep passes. That speaks to ample arm strength, just common sense. Would you like to know what else is common sense? That a 43 year old quarterback has declining arm strength. 15 minutes ago, Saint_James said: There are much better ways to quantify arm strength than a 45 yard go-route as well. Specifically the "deep-out" route which is more generally used to gauge a QB's arm as it requires high velocity out to the sidelines out to 20'ish yards. Did you watch him in that Giants game? I thought he took Scottie Miller's hands off with that one pass. So this bit of anecdotal and completely subjective evidence is what we’re supposed to go on as far as Brady’s declining arm strength? You’ll be going with that? 17 minutes ago, Saint_James said: I do not agree that arm strength is the issue here. You’re welcome to disagree, but you’re still wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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