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The Tom Brady Thread


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Probably going to enjoy the shift in narrative if Tampa win their next 3 or 4 winnable games. It doesn't seem that long ago Brady was destroying Carolina, Las Vegas and GreenBay and people were all over Tom.

 

Why is it never grey? Has to be either black or white, and that's just stupid

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33 minutes ago, rich homie said:

Apparently the only reason Brady wasn't throwing stupid interceptions every single game on the Pats was because Belichick had to tell him not to? It seems like there's a growing movement to try and absolve the guy of any blame right now that actually casts his entire career in a pretty negative light. 

His career has always been suspect anyway. 

1. Cheating scandals

2.  Bailed out by refs constantly at key moments (tuck rule wtf?)

3.  Played in weakest AFC division ever

4.  Had historically great and dominant defenses for years

5.  Was never asked to do all that much to win games, just don't screw them up.

 

I could go on and on, the guys just never passed the eye test to some of us.  He's always been over-hyped.    He's not a Rodgers or Wilson who can make every throw at any time from anywhere.  He's not a Mahomes who can make something out of nothing.  To say nothing of his pathetic physical abilities.  He's a system quarterback who was plugged into the greatest system with possibly the greatest coach of all time. 

To someone like me, the excuse-making that people and the national media are making for Tom Brady is just obnoxious.   "OMG Tampa Bay is going to win the Super Bowl now!!"  five minutes later "OMG Bruce Arians is the worst coach ever, the system is terrible, bla bla bla!"   And these were the same people who swore up and down that Bellicheck wasn't the secret sauce in the recipe lol.    It's just incredible to see people tripping all over themselves now that the Tom Brady experiment isn't looking so good.

Antonio Brown sees that he's double covered with a safety on top, so breaks off his route.  Something the "GOAT" should see, and know, in his SLEEP.  For 20 years all we heard was that he was the "Pre-Snap Read KING".  This is high-school level stuff, basic Tampa 2 coverage.  Instead Mr. "GOAT" throws it right to the safety for an interception.    And I turn on the TV and people are blaming Antonio Brown or "chemistry" or whatever?  Come on, what gives!

When Brady had Moss, they aired it out all the time.  He was the best deep-ball QB, that's all you ever heard from these fans.  How great he was stretching the field.  Now that he has 10+ HOF receivers on the team, air-yards is bad.  Big no no.  Bruce Arians is such a dummy.   See?  You can't win man, Brady is god or something.  He can never be at fault ever.

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51 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Probably going to enjoy the shift in narrative if Tampa win their next 3 or 4 winnable games. It doesn't seem that long ago Brady was destroying Carolina, Las Vegas and GreenBay and people were all over Tom.

 

Why is it never grey? Has to be either black or white, and that's just stupid

It’s like that with everybody, either MVP or needs to retire.

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See, I disagree with that though.  People, including myself, have been calling out the Buccaneers for inconsistent/shaky offense all season.  Whether it's a Brady issue, Arians issue (which gets my vote), OL issue, chemistry issue, whatever... there is nothing new about their issues.  This isn't a matter of the narrative changing... well, depending on who you are talking to.

There was nothing at all surprising about them underwhelming offensively against the Chiefs (at least early on in the game), Rams, or Saints.  They haven't been consistent on offense all year, and while they do have their games (although beating up on the Panthers sorry defense, which at the time had allowed 1 or 2 punts in a 3-game stretch, isn't all that impressive), it's usually because of a sheer talent advantage.

Look at the Green Bay game for example.  Brady only threw for 166 yards.  The run game did well, but they benefited greatly from a strong defensive performance and good field position.  And Arians has consistently went away from the run game this season.  Ronald Jones ran for 66 yards on 9 carries.  Why would you not feed the hot hand?  They also struggled against the Bears and Giants too, and while they did eventually turn it around against the Chargers, they were looking very underwhelming in the first half of that game too until the fumble at the end of the first half.

Yeah, if people are saying Brady sucks, they should be ignored.  But I think we've seen enough this season to say the Bucs offense is pretty inconsistent, and they either go through these lulls where they don't do anything or they play up to their potential.  But that kind of inconsistency could very well bite them in the butt in the playoffs.  Bucs are not getting to the Super Bowl if they run it as little as they did against KC or the Saints.  Not if they don't learn to cut down on the turnovers.  A team with Brady at QB, you wouldn't expect to be 18th in turnovers.  You turn the ball over like they have been doing, and you don't establish a run game?  That's a mix for a bad playoff run. 

Of course, you can't count-out Brady, and that team is still loaded with talent.  But there is a reason they are "only" 7-5 right now.  They can be out-coached and out-schemed.  And it's shown throughout the season.  Of course, they could easily go on a 4-0 run and finish 11-5.  But I don't think that nullifies what we've seen out of them.

Edited by iknowcool
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45 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

Look at the Green Bay game for example.  Brady only threw for 166 yards.  The run game did well, but they benefited greatly from a strong defensive performance and good field position.  And Arians has consistently went away from the run game this season.  Ronald Jones ran for 66 yards on 9 carries.  Why would you not feed the hot hand?  They also struggled against the Bears and Giants too, and while they did eventually turn it around against the Chargers, they were looking very underwhelming in the first half of that game too until the fumble at the end of the first half.

Yeah, if people are saying Brady sucks, they should be ignored. 

 Not saying Tom Brady "sucks", but you think they brought him over there and paid him all that money and gave him such wide latitude to....hand the ball off to a running back?? 

Some of my fellow Saints fans say the same thing about Sean Payton, makes no sense to me.   Why in the world would he go smashmouth with a running game when he has a HOF quarterback and EVERY RULE is designed to benefit the passing game?  

 

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24 minutes ago, Saint_James said:

 Not saying Tom Brady "sucks", but you think they brought him over there and paid him all that money and gave him such wide latitude to....hand the ball off to a running back?? 

Some of my fellow Saints fans say the same thing about Sean Payton, makes no sense to me.   Why in the world would he go smashmouth with a running game when he has a HOF quarterback and EVERY RULE is designed to benefit the passing game?  

 

You don't have to be a smash-mouth running team to run the ball more than 9 times with a back averaging over 7 yards per carry.

It's being a good coach and learning to adapt.  Several times the Patriots went with a run-first mentality because it's what made the most sense in that situation.  

But, if the Bucs don't want to try and establish the run game more... then stop turning it over!  That's the thing.  If they are okay with the amount of times they run the ball (currently 29th in the league in rushing attempts), then turn the ball over less in the passing game.  They are 18th in turnovers and 24th in interceptions.  18th in the league in NY/A.  They have to be more efficient and consistent in the passing game if they are going to continue to not incorporate a run-game into the game-plan. They are just making it harder on themselves.  

And, of course, I'm not saying Jones' performance against the Chiefs was reflective of his season.  Their run game isn't strong either.  But they get away from it far too much.  If they need Brady to throw 48 times against the Rams to have a chance, then I just don't like their odds in a re-match in the playoffs.  They gotta get more balanced somewhere.

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When your quarterback is constantly failing to maintain drives and you fall behind, you ain't going to run your way back into those games.  Of course you're going to throw the ball more.  Look at how Brady started that Chiefs game and you have your answer.  Look at how he started both New Orleans games, same.  How many 3 and outs early did he have in those games?  How many bad decisions leading to turnovers?

See this is my issue with the whole Tom Brady debate.  Is he the "GOAT" that we all have to bow down to, or does he need great defense and a solid run game??  People in this very thread have brought up his MVP's as if to say they shield him from all criticism.  Well....does that speak of an MVP quarterback to say the ball should NOT be in his hands with a game on the line?

I am not saying you are wrong on any given point, although criticizing their gameplan for a straight ROUTE of Green Bay seems a little odd to me. 

I look at a guy like Drew Brees who's constantly had to do more with less than Tom Brady, no MVP's.  I look at Russel Wilson who's done the same, never had a complete team, and hasn't gotten a SINGLE MVP vote in his career.  Ask yourself what Tom Brady has that guys like that don't as far as QB skill.   Because I don't see it and I never have.

I can certainly understand how miffed Arians must be right now.   Their passing attack should be dominating, you CANNOT cover all these guys.   He goes back and looks at the tape, and guys are open all over the place.  Guys being paid a ton.   What is wrong with Brady?  They've given him exactly who and what he's asked for.  They even let him pick the plays.  It must be maddening.

 

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36 minutes ago, Saint_James said:

When your quarterback is constantly failing to maintain drives and you fall behind, you ain't going to run your way back into those games.  Of course you're going to throw the ball more.  Look at how Brady started that Chiefs game and you have your answer.  Look at how he started both New Orleans games, same.  How many 3 and outs early did he have in those games?  How many bad decisions leading to turnovers?

See this is my issue with the whole Tom Brady debate.  Is he the "GOAT" that we all have to bow down to, or does he need great defense and a solid run game??  People in this very thread have brought up his MVP's as if to say they shield him from all criticism.  Well....does that speak of an MVP quarterback to say the ball should NOT be in his hands with a game on the line?

I am not saying you are wrong on any given point, although criticizing their gameplan for a straight ROUTE of Green Bay seems a little odd to me. 

I look at a guy like Drew Brees who's constantly had to do more with less than Tom Brady, no MVP's.  I look at Russel Wilson who's done the same, never had a complete team, and hasn't gotten a SINGLE MVP vote in his career.  Ask yourself what Tom Brady has that guys like that don't as far as QB skill.   Because I don't see it and I never have.

I can certainly understand how miffed Arians must be right now.   Their passing attack should be dominating, you CANNOT cover all these guys.   He goes back and looks at the tape, and guys are open all over the place.  Guys being paid a ton.   What is wrong with Brady?  They've given him exactly who and what he's asked for.  They even let him pick the plays.  It must be maddening.

 

That’s because you are only looking strictly at accuracy in Brees case and athleticism in Wilson’s case. It’s a common mistake. Brady wins the game in pre and post snap read, far more pocket presence, less mistakes, has one of the best short and mid range velocity passes in the game, etc.

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1 hour ago, lancerman said:

It’s amazing how Romo identifies what half of us have been saying for awhile within a few series in the game..

When he spoke about Brady he did what most people can't when discussing Brady - he spoke with logic and not emotion. Didn't think much of his 'this could be the superbowl matchup' comment though. I think the Bucs are way off

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45 minutes ago, lancerman said:

That’s because you are only looking strictly at accuracy in Brees case and athleticism in Wilson’s case. It’s a common mistake. Brady wins the game in pre and post snap read, far more pocket presence, less mistakes, has one of the best short and mid range velocity passes in the game, etc.

Hmm...that's possibly the best way of describing what made (makes) Tom so good I've seen for a while. 

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1 hour ago, Saint_James said:

 Not saying Tom Brady "sucks", but you think they brought him over there and paid him all that money and gave him such wide latitude to....hand the ball off to a running back?? 

Some of my fellow Saints fans say the same thing about Sean Payton, makes no sense to me.   Why in the world would he go smashmouth with a running game when he has a HOF quarterback and EVERY RULE is designed to benefit the passing game?  

 

He's 43 years old and the OL isn't great at pass protection. Seems like as good a reason as any to limit his exposure.

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15 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

When he spoke about Brady he did what most people can't when discussing Brady - he spoke with logic and not emotion. Didn't think much of his 'this could be the superbowl matchup' comment though. I think the Bucs are way off

This board has been declaring a Brady done since 2014. Often listing the exact same reasons 

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6 minutes ago, Starless said:

He's 43 years old and the OL isn't great at pass protection. Seems like as good a reason as any to limit his exposure.

 

Tampa Bay had the #5 ranked offensive line in October.....now they are going to get blamed for Brady's struggles too?    3,300 yards and 28 TD's so far and they aren't great at pass protection?  For a guy who literally cannot move in the pocket, that's putting him on pace for a pretty good season by all accounts. 

As far as his age, well, nobody to blame for that other than him and his massive ego.  

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1 minute ago, Saint_James said:

 

Tampa Bay had the #5 ranked offensive line in October.....now they are going to get blamed for Brady's struggles too?    3,300 yards and 28 TD's so far and they aren't great at pass protection?  For a guy who literally cannot move in the pocket, that's putting him on pace for a pretty good season by all accounts. 

As far as his age, well, nobody to blame for that other than him and his massive ego.  

Movement in the pocket is one of his strongest traits. I mean the commentators always go on about it. Do you mean scrambling ?

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