The Good, Bad, Ugly vs Buffalo

[drfrey13]

3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/index.htm

We rank 9th in yards per game at 390.5 ypg and 9th in scoring offense at 27.7 ppg. 

maybe you were looking at total yards per game or a list that is not updated yet.  ESPN updates the next day.  

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/offense/stat/total/table/passing/sort/totalPointsPerGame/dir/desc

We might jump teams because of tonights games but the updated totals before the games tonight are:

					TOTAL		PASSING		RUSHING		POINTS
TEAM				GP	YDS	YDS/G	YDS	YDS/G	YDS	YDS/G	PTS	PTS/G
Dallas CowboysDallas Cowboys				4	2,038	509.5	1,631	407.8	407	101.8	126	31.5
Green Bay PackersGreen Bay Packers				3	1,379	459.7	864	288	515	171.7	122	40.7
Kansas City ChiefsKansas City Chiefs				3	1,300	433.3	877	292.3	423	141	91	30.3
Atlanta FalconsAtlanta Falcons				3	1,257	419	928	309.3	329	109.7	90	30
Seattle SeahawksSeattle Seahawks				4	1,665	416.3	1,212	303	453	113.3	142	35.5
Buffalo BillsBuffalo Bills				4	1,638	409.5	1,265	316.3	373	93.3	123	30.8
New England PatriotsNew England Patriots				3	1,227	409	693	231	534	178	87	29
Los Angeles ChargersLos Angeles Chargers				4	1,601	400.3	1,100	275	501	125.3	83	20.8
Los Angeles RamsLos Angeles Rams				4	1,589	397.3	1,020	255	569	142.3	106	26.5
Tennessee TitansTennessee Titans				3	1,175	391.7	788	262.7	387	129	80	26.7
San Francisco 49ersSan Francisco 49ers				4	1,562	390.5	1,048	262	514	128.5	107	26.8
Carolina PanthersCarolina Panthers				4	1,561	390.3	1,096	274	465	116.3	99	24.8
Cleveland BrownsCleveland Browns				4	1,548	387	730	182.5	818	204.5	124	31
Pittsburgh SteelersPittsburgh Steelers				3	1,146	382	727	242.3	419	139.7	80	26.7
Las Vegas RaidersLas Vegas Raiders				4	1,507	376.8	1,046	261.5	461	115.3	111	27.8
Tampa Bay BuccaneersTampa Bay Buccaneers				4	1,486	371.5	1,095	273.8	391	97.8	120	30
New Orleans SaintsNew Orleans Saints				4	1,484	371	1,004	251	480	120	123	30.8
Arizona CardinalsArizona Cardinals				4	1,481	370.3	903	225.8	578	144.5	98	24.5
Jacksonville JaguarsJacksonville Jaguars				4	1,468	367	1,051	262.8	417	104.3	95	23.8
Cincinnati BengalsCincinnati Bengals				4	1,457	364.3	1,014	253.5	443	110.8	99	24.8
Indianapolis ColtsIndianapolis Colts				4	1,441	360.3	980	245	461	115.3	103	25.8
Minnesota VikingsMinnesota Vikings				4	1,431	357.8	829	207.3	602	150.5	106	26.5
Miami DolphinsMiami Dolphins				4	1,388	347	961	240.3	427	106.8	93	23.3
Chicago BearsChicago Bears				4	1,373	343.3	931	232.8	442	110.5	85	21.3
Baltimore RavensBaltimore Ravens				4	1,366	341.5	723	180.8	643	160.8	122	30.5
Detroit LionsDetroit Lions				4	1,336	334	929	232.3	407	101.8	99	24.8
Houston TexansHouston Texans				4	1,310	327.5	1,016	254	294	73.5	80	20
Philadelphia EaglesPhiladelphia Eagles				4	1,276	319	830	207.5	446	111.5	84	21
Denver BroncosDenver Broncos				4	1,227	306.8	857	214.3	370	92.5	82	20.5
WashingtonWashington				4	1,207	301.8	838	209.5	369	92.3	79	19.8
New York GiantsNew York Giants				4	1,112	278	806	201.5	306	76.5	47	11.8
New York JetsNew York Jets				4	1,112	278	718	179.5	394	98.5	65	16.3

 

You will just have to take my word on the points or just click the link.

 

[drfrey13]

4 hours ago, NYRaider said:

If you're allowing 30 points every week it's nearly impossible to sustain success. Good defenses are able to force turnovers to get the ball back for their offense with good field position. 

I understand this is a hard concept in todays world but the different aspects of the team have to work together to have success.  Not all the points given up are on the defense.  We have given up points after turnovers, missed field goals, and Carr even fumbled in the endzone.  Carolina I will put on the defense.  NO the D did their job and it was Guenther's prevent that led to a late score when we were up by 2 TDs late in the 4th.  The first quarter against NE they looked as good as any defense in the league then we relaxed, started making mistakes on both sides of the ball, and BB outcoached us in the 2nd half.  Sunday we just got beat by a team that averages over 30 points a game and TO differential sealed the game.  We actually held them to 350 yards. TOs killed us again.  The defense needs to be more aggressive to force turnovers but at the same time the offense needs to stop fumbling.  We have 5 fumbles in our last 2 games and you want to put this all on the defense.  At some point you start to lose heart.  They have to work together, we need to get healthy, and Guenther needs to get his stuff together one way or another.  I would say TOs are more so a product of aggressive defenses than good defenses.  Defenses are more aggressive when a offense is 1 dimensional.  So either you have a good defense on 1st and 2nd down or you have an offense that puts the other team in a hole.  The way we are structured the defense is suppose to not lose the game and the offense is suppose to win the game.  We are not going to force a lot of short drives but our offense is suppose to sustain a lot of long drives.

I just looked it up and from 2005- 2018 if you are -2 in TO differential your chances of winning are 17.7%.

Edited October 6, 2020 by drfrey13

[true2form]

8 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I understand this is a hard concept in todays world but the different aspects of the team have to work together to have success.  Not all the points given up are on the defense.  We have given up points after turnovers, missed field goals, and Carr even fumbled in the endzone.  Carolina I will put on the defense.  NO the D did their job and it was Guenther's prevent that led to a late score when we were up by 2 TDs late in the 4th.  The first quarter against NE they looked as good as any defense in the league then we relaxed, started making mistakes on both sides of the ball, and BB outcoached us in the 2nd half.  Sunday we just got beat by a team that averages over 30 points a game and TO differential sealed the game.  We actually held them to 350 yards. TOs killed us again.  The defense needs to be more aggressive to force turnovers but at the same time the offense needs to stop fumbling.  We have 5 fumbles in our last 2 games and you want to put this all on the defense.  At some point you start to lose heart.  They have to work together, we need to get healthy, and Guenther needs to get his stuff together one way or another.  I would say TOs are more so a product of aggressive defenses than good defenses.  Defenses are more aggressive when a offense is 1 dimensional.  So either you have a good defense on 1st and 2nd down or you have an offense that puts the other team in a hole.  The way we are structured the defense is suppose to not lose the game and the offense is suppose to win the game.  We are not going to force a lot of short drives but our offense is suppose to sustain a lot of long drives.

I just looked it up and from 2005- 2018 if you are -2 in TO differential your chances of winning are 17.7%.

I think the biggest thing that people are missing is that that's a two way street.  No one is blameless. The offense has to do better with turnovers.  However, the defense has to do something because the offense is going to turn the ball over.  It just is. Everyone does, that's football.

I've seen a lot of guys arguing over this and one side says the defense sucks and the other seems to want the offense to never make a mistake. Both are absolutely ridiculous. 

The facts are that the defense can play pretty well in spurts, but overall they are just plain bad.  No big plays. No sacks. No turnovers.  Happy to get some stops at this point.

The offense can be pretty good.  However, they're not perfect and anyone hoping for them to be perfect or amazing to overcome the defense is kidding themselves.

[Darbsk]

35 minutes ago, true2form said:

I think the biggest thing that people are missing is that that's a two way street.  No one is blameless. The offense has to do better with turnovers.  However, the defense has to do something because the offense is going to turn the ball over.  It just is. Everyone does, that's football.

I've seen a lot of guys arguing over this and one side says the defense sucks and the other seems to want the offense to never make a mistake. Both are absolutely ridiculous. 

The facts are that the defense can play pretty well in spurts, but overall they are just plain bad.  No big plays. No sacks. No turnovers.  Happy to get some stops at this point.

The offense can be pretty good.  However, they're not perfect and anyone hoping for them to be perfect or amazing to overcome the defense is kidding themselves.

Excellent post.

Can the offense improve? Certainly, but they are playing pretty well I think most will agree, whilst the D is playing at a bottom 5 type level. Its logical that the D should be the focus for improvement.

[NCOUGHMAN]

3 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Excellent post.

Can the offense improve? Certainly, but they are playing pretty well I think most will agree, whilst the D is playing at a bottom 5 type level. Its logical that the D should be the focus for improvement.

Logically thinking what can you really expect when offense eats up about 70% of our salary cap? We know the defense is poor. so much money and focus has been on the offense. You get what you pay for...

[Darbsk]

3 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Logically thinking what can you really expect when offense eats up about 70% of our salary cap? We know the defense is poor. so much money and focus has been on the offense. You get what you pay for...

True, true. Pretty much every year I advocate for drafting a DL in the first round 😁 

 

[Darbsk]

16 hours ago, NYRaider said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/index.htm

We rank 9th in yards per game at 390.5 ypg and 9th in scoring offense at 27.7 ppg. 

I would think the Saints, Patriots and Bills are all playoff calibre teams so in context and thinking about the guys missing I'm optimistic about our O moving forward. 

[big_palooka]

 

#carrtrouble

[Geezy]

its funny how Carr played well when his top 2 ROOKIE WRs were in the lineup. Crazy how losing 5 starters on offense can affect the dynamic of the unit. Carr isnt the problem, but his haters will always be quick throw him under the bus. The defense is trash and our offense is missing almost half its starters. Yet were 2-2 after play 3 top 10 teams. Cant wait to get back healthy and see what this team is really made of. 

The biggest issue with this team is the lack of playmakers on defense, weve forced what, two turnovers on defense? It all stems from the lack of pass rush. 

[drfrey13]

6 hours ago, true2form said:

I think the biggest thing that people are missing is that that's a two way street.  No one is blameless. The offense has to do better with turnovers.  However, the defense has to do something because the offense is going to turn the ball over.  It just is. Everyone does, that's football.

I've seen a lot of guys arguing over this and one side says the defense sucks and the other seems to want the offense to never make a mistake. Both are absolutely ridiculous. 

The facts are that the defense can play pretty well in spurts, but overall they are just plain bad.  No big plays. No sacks. No turnovers.  Happy to get some stops at this point.

The offense can be pretty good.  However, they're not perfect and anyone hoping for them to be perfect or amazing to overcome the defense is kidding themselves.

I completely agree that it is on the defense to create turnovers and I think a few people are jumping on the dump Guenther train because he is just not aggressive enough.  I have posted it a few times that the offense needs to help the defense and defense needs to help the offense.  TOs are not the only variable also.  We need to get healthy and maybe that helps the offense in the fumble category.  There are a lot of moving parts but I just take issue with some people always making excuses for the offense by saying the defense is the problem but never admit that the offense not sustain drives or turning the ball over hurts the defense.  It is the head and heart argument.  You need both.  I just put more responsibility on the offense because our team is setup so that the defense does not lose games and the offense wins them.  Defense needs to be top 20 and the offense needs to be top 10.  Both need to improve.

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

There are a lot of moving parts but I just take issue with some people always making excuses for the offense by saying the defense is the problem but never admit that the offense not sustain drives or turning the ball over hurts the defense.  It is the head and heart argument.  You need both.  I just put more responsibility on the offense because our team is setup so that the defense does not lose games and the offense wins them.  Defense needs to be top 20 and the offense needs to be top 10.  Both need to improve.

To be fair, I can't recall anyone saying the offense is above reproach or that the offense can't play better or be more accurate. The offense can improve but its already playing at an above average to good level I feel, whereas the defence is playing at a poor to bottom 5 level when things like turnovers, scoring defence and forcing punts is taken into account alongside PPG and YPG.

To be really competitive all 3 units need to improve but the D is the one lagging far behind so that would be the most crucial to improve the most.

[Dessie]

3 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

To be fair, I can't recall anyone saying the offense is above reproach or that the offense can't play better or be more accurate. The offense can improve but its already playing at an above average to good level I feel, whereas the defence is playing at a poor to bottom 5 level when things like turnovers, scoring defence and forcing punts is taken into account alongside PPG and YPG.

To be really competitive all 3 units need to improve but the D is the one lagging far behind so that would be the most crucial to improve the most.

This. Can’t believe that people are seeing past this just to try and pin some blame to Carr. Course all the units can improve but the defense has to improve considerably more to give us a chance. 

[MrOaktown_56]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

 

#carrtrouble

After your vacation, only you could come back with this post 💀

[NYRaider]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

 

#carrtrouble

Our defense sucks, lol. 

• Abram's is out of position 

• Amik got burnt

• Mullen, Harris, and Littleton in the same area covering no one while a WR runs wide open behind them 

[drfrey13]

29 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

To be fair, I can't recall anyone saying the offense is above reproach or that the offense can't play better or be more accurate. The offense can improve but its already playing at an above average to good level I feel, whereas the defence is playing at a poor to bottom 5 level when things like turnovers, scoring defence and forcing punts is taken into account alongside PPG and YPG.

To be really competitive all 3 units need to improve but the D is the one lagging far behind so that would be the most crucial to improve the most.

I have seen plenty of post that say how do we expect to win after the defense gives up 30 points a game but at the same time forgetting that some of those points came from turnovers.  If you remove Carr's fumble in the end zone the defense has averaged 28.25 points a game and the offense has scored 27.8 per game.  The defense is the weak link but we knew that the defense was suppose to be the weak link.  Gruden wants to win with the offense.  Our offense has had a hard time sustaining drives and the defense has had a hard time getting off the field.  Maybe it all comes together after we get healthy and replace Guenther.  The defense needs to get better and the offense needs to stop fumbling.  The bottom line for this team is that we need to be healthy and not make mistakes to be a playoff team this year.  We are on the cusp of being above average but we have very little margin for error.  

 

36 minutes ago, Dessie said:

This. Can’t believe that people are seeing past this just to try and pin some blame to Carr. Course all the units can improve but the defense has to improve considerably more to give us a chance. 

Nobody is looking past the defense to blame Carr.  I am just pointing out that the offense is held to a higher standard.  I am not happy with either unit the past 2 weeks and as far as Carr is concerned I have posted a few times that I think Carr has correcting some of issues I had with him but still needs more work.  I have not called for him to be replaced this year but have called for Guenther to be replaced since 2018.