NCOUGHMAN Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: I have seen plenty of post that say how do we expect to win after the defense gives up 30 points a game but at the same time forgetting that some of those points came from turnovers. If you remove Carr's fumble in the end zone the defense has averaged 28.25 points a game and the offense has scored 27.8 per game. The defense is the weak link but we knew that the defense was suppose to be the weak link. Gruden wants to win with the offense. Our offense has had a hard time sustaining drives and the defense has had a hard time getting off the field. Maybe it all comes together after we get healthy and replace Guenther. The defense needs to get better and the offense needs to stop fumbling. The bottom line for this team is that we need to be healthy and not make mistakes to be a playoff team this year. We are on the cusp of being above average but we have very little margin for error. Nobody is looking past the defense to blame Carr. I am just pointing out that the offense is held to a higher standard. I am not happy with either unit the past 2 weeks and as far as Carr is concerned I have posted a few times that I think Carr has correcting some of issues I had with him but still needs more work. I have not called for him to be replaced this year but have called for Guenther to be replaced since 2018. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Our defense sucks, lol. • Abram's is out of position • Amik got burnt • Mullen, Harris, and Littleton in the same area covering no one while a WR runs wide open behind them Looks like the Chiefs game last year. Teams are going to blow coverages but they better be held accountable. Only person I give a pass to is Amik because I expect that out of a rookie CB in his first game. I still do not know why we gave Harris that contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 The first two weeks: 6 penalties for 53 yards, 1 turnover The last two weeks: 13 penalties for 106 yards, 5 turnovers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 37 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: I have seen plenty of post that say how do we expect to win after the defense gives up 30 points a game but at the same time forgetting that some of those points came from turnovers. If you remove Carr's fumble in the end zone the defense has averaged 28.25 points a game and the offense has scored 27.8 per game. The defense is the weak link but we knew that the defense was suppose to be the weak link. Gruden wants to win with the offense. Our offense has had a hard time sustaining drives and the defense has had a hard time getting off the field. Maybe it all comes together after we get healthy and replace Guenther. The defense needs to get better and the offense needs to stop fumbling. The bottom line for this team is that we need to be healthy and not make mistakes to be a playoff team this year. We are on the cusp of being above average but we have very little margin for error. Nobody is looking past the defense to blame Carr. I am just pointing out that the offense is held to a higher standard. I am not happy with either unit the past 2 weeks and as far as Carr is concerned I have posted a few times that I think Carr has correcting some of issues I had with him but still needs more work. I have not called for him to be replaced this year but have called for Guenther to be replaced since 2018. This is a very reasonable take and I agree. But the defense itself has not generated turnovers at all or forced 3 and outs. If the defense was getting a turnover here and there, it would help make up for a lot of the horrible big plays given up. I agree that the offense needs to be better, but missing Richie, Trent, and 2/3 of our best best WRs (even after Tyrell went down) makes it very, very difficult for the offense to put up 30+ a game. We couldn't run the ball for **** last week because the OL was getting manhandled. I honestly think that's the biggest issue with the offense rn. We don't have balance because Jacobs is getting smothered back there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: This is a very reasonable take and I agree. But the defense itself has not generated turnovers at all or forced 3 and outs. If the defense was getting a turnover here and there, it would help make up for a lot of the horrible big plays given up. I agree that the offense needs to be better, but missing Richie, Trent, and 2/3 of our best best WRs (even after Tyrell went down) makes it very, very difficult for the offense to put up 30+ a game. We couldn't run the ball for **** last week because the OL was getting manhandled. I honestly think that's the biggest issue with the offense rn. We don't have balance because Jacobs is getting smothered back there. We rank 29th in yards per drive allowed, 25th in opponent plays per drive, 25th in opponent time of possession per drive, 31st in takeaways, and have only forced 5 3&outs which ranks 25th. We've had 37 defensive possession and the results have been: 13 TD (35%), 8 FG (22%), 5 3 & Outs (13%), 9 punts (25%), and 2 takeaways (5%). So teams have scored on like 60% of their drives and we've only been able to force a 3&O or a turnover on like 20% of drives. That's not great. I think there's three issues with the offense right now: inopportune turnovers, lack of weapons in the passing game, and inability to run the ball. Against the Patriots we got inside their 25 yard line 6 times and only came away with 20 points. Once was due to a fumble and the other 3 times we failed to score a TD were because we couldn't establish the run or find anyone open with our passing game. Against the Bills we got deep into their territory on our first 4 drives and only came away with 16 points. And then deep into their territory twice in the 4th quarter and turned it over both times. So in total over the last two weeks we've had 13 drives where we were driving deep into opponent territory and only came away with 43 points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 4 hours ago, drfrey13 said: I have seen plenty of post that say how do we expect to win after the defense gives up 30 points a game but at the same time forgetting that some of those points came from turnovers. If you remove Carr's fumble in the end zone the defense has averaged 28.25 points a game and the offense has scored 27.8 per game. The defense is the weak link but we knew that the defense was suppose to be the weak link. Gruden wants to win with the offense. Our offense has had a hard time sustaining drives and the defense has had a hard time getting off the field. Maybe it all comes together after we get healthy and replace Guenther. The defense needs to get better and the offense needs to stop fumbling. The bottom line for this team is that we need to be healthy and not make mistakes to be a playoff team this year. We are on the cusp of being above average but we have very little margin for error. I dont know if you can just look at points like that. first, The Bills were def killing the clock, and the pats I think went conservative as well. IE not trying to get points. second, Our O seems to be consitently starting on our 25 from teams kicking off because they score every time. IE, we have 75 yards to go to score. third, Our O has moved the ball enough to give the D some decent field positions. I dont recall nearly as many 3 and outs as we had last year. IE opposing teams have less than 75 yards to score. 4th - our O has gotten some late useless tds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 5 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: This is a very reasonable take and I agree. But the defense itself has not generated turnovers at all or forced 3 and outs. If the defense was getting a turnover here and there, it would help make up for a lot of the horrible big plays given up. I agree that the offense needs to be better, but missing Richie, Trent, and 2/3 of our best best WRs (even after Tyrell went down) makes it very, very difficult for the offense to put up 30+ a game. We couldn't run the ball for **** last week because the OL was getting manhandled. I honestly think that's the biggest issue with the offense rn. We don't have balance because Jacobs is getting smothered back there. I definitely agree about getting healthy that is why I keep repeating it. I do not want anyone to think I am just calling out the offense based upon their play. Missing 2 of our top 3 OL and our top 3 WRs hurts a lot. I think giving Guenther the axe and getting healthy will work wonders for us. We get healthy, the offense will play better, and this will give the defense the boost it needs (It is the weak link) to out play our opponents on a whole. Without looking at score and yardage my favorite way to tell how well a team is doing is to look at time of possession and TO differential. We are not going to have a top 5 defense and a top 5 offense but TOP and TO differential lets you know if you have the right balance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, BackinBlack said: Our O seems to be consitently starting on our 25 from teams kicking off because they score every time. IE, we have 75 yards to go to score. third, Our O has moved the ball enough to give the D some decent field positions. I dont recall nearly as many 3 and outs as we had last year. IE opposing teams have less than 75 yards to score. So far this season our average starting field position is the 27 yard line which is 21st worst in the league. Our ranks this year Yards per drive: 4th Points per drive: 5th Plays per drive: 2nd Time of possession per drive: 3rd TD's / Drives: 10th FG's / Drives: 5th Punts / Drives: 4th 3Outs / Drives: 3rd Where we've struggled is with turnovers and finishing drives with touchdowns. TO / Drives: 25th TD / FG ratio: 23rd TDs / Red zone: 20th 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, BackinBlack said: I dont know if you can just look at points like that. first, The Bills were def killing the clock, and the pats I think went conservative as well. IE not trying to get points. second, Our O seems to be consitently starting on our 25 from teams kicking off because they score every time. IE, we have 75 yards to go to score. third, Our O has moved the ball enough to give the D some decent field positions. I dont recall nearly as many 3 and outs as we had last year. IE opposing teams have less than 75 yards to score. 4th - our O has gotten some late useless tds This is why you have to watch the games also. If you just look at the stats you can easily led in the wrong direction. The Bills are just a better team. How well we play them when healthy might be a different story however. The Pats game we came out firing on defense and the offense did not do its job early. Our 2 longest drives in the first half were 4:33 minutes and 2:18. We average 1:49 per drive in the first half. I wonder why the defense got gassed. Our defense gave up a garbage TD to the Saints because Guenther was playing prevent and our offense has score a TD in each of the last 2 games that were meaningless as the other teams defenses where just trying to burn time. This happens in most games however so I do not put a lot of weight into points per game except to place teams in tiers. Right now I would say our defense is around 25th and our offense in the 12-15 range. If we are healthy the defense is in the 18-22 range and the offense is 8-12. I could be completely wrong but I believe the injuries on offense are what is throwing both units off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, NYRaider said: So far this season our average starting field position is the 27 yard line which is 21st worst in the league. Our ranks this year Yards per drive: 4th Points per drive: 5th Plays per drive: 2nd Time of possession per drive: 3rd TD's / Drives: 10th FG's / Drives: 5th Punts / Drives: 4th 3Outs / Drives: 3rd Where we've struggled is with turnovers and finishing drives with touchdowns. TO / Drives: 25th TD / FG ratio: 23rd TDs / Red zone: 20th I can not dispute the stats but I think you might see a big difference in rankings between weeks 1-2 and weeks 3-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 30 minutes ago, NYRaider said: So far this season our average starting field position is the 27 yard line which is 21st worst in the league. Our ranks this year Yards per drive: 4th Points per drive: 5th Plays per drive: 2nd Time of possession per drive: 3rd TD's / Drives: 10th FG's / Drives: 5th Punts / Drives: 4th 3Outs / Drives: 3rd Where we've struggled is with turnovers and finishing drives with touchdowns. TO / Drives: 25th TD / FG ratio: 23rd TDs / Red zone: 20th Stat man good f job the 3 and out means we almost lead the nfl in offensive 3 n outs? top 10 offense? We was tossing 30 burgers up like nothing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 23 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Stat man good f job the 3 and out means we almost lead the nfl in offensive 3 n outs? top 10 offense? We was tossing 30 burgers up like nothing No it means we have the third fewest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 45 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: I can not dispute the stats but I think you might see a big difference in rankings between weeks 1-2 and weeks 3-4. We’ve moved the ball effectively every week. We were able to finish drives with TD’s the first two weeks. And have settled for FG’s and turned the ball over deep in our opponents territory 3 times in the last 2 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 The RZ issues 100% have to do with not being able to run. If Trent and Richie are bulldozing guys, it will open it up in the RZ for the tight ends way more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, drfrey13 said: Our 2 longest drives in the first half were 4:33 minutes and 2:18. We average 1:49 per drive in the first half. I wonder why the defense got gassed. I just dont buy this. I understand the O needs to step up here but if your D is gassed after 2 drives then they need serious conditioning. Or they need to stop the opponent, in the 4th quarter fair enough but otherwise teams will go on one or two long drives and they'll be knackered for the rest of the game?? More likely is the weak spots were correctly analysed by a great coach and we didn't adapt IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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