agarcia34 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I don’t think people really understand that KC changed everything last year. Jimmy G a game manager couldn’t hit the big throw when it was needed. An ELITE QB makes that throw. KC changed everything. When you play in the same conference as them you can’t have a game manager as your QB. Raiders will never win the AFC West against a Mahomes led team. Which means for the Raiders if they make the playoffs will have to go through KC. And you’re not beating them with a game manager at QB. They’re to damn good on offense and it Suffocates you it puts so much pressure on the opposing teams offense cause you have to fight and go toe to toe with them. A game manager cannot do that a QB like Carr cannot do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, agarcia34 said: I don’t think people really understand that KC changed everything last year. Jimmy G a game manager couldn’t hit the big throw when it was needed. An ELITE QB makes that throw. Meh. I wouldn't take it that far. 2019 SB Champs - Brady: 272 ypg, 7.6 Y/A | 20.3 ppg allowed (7th), 28 takeaways (5th) 2018 SB Champs - Foles: 143 ypg, 5.3 Y/A | 18.4 ppg allowed (4th), 31 takeaways (4th) 2017 SB Champs - Brady: 296 ypg, 8.2 Y/A | 15.6 ppg allowed (1st), 23 takeaways (14th) 2016 SB Champs - Manning: 228 ypg, 6.8 Y/A | 18.5 ppg allowed (4th), 27 takeaways (7th) 2015 SB Champs - Brady: 256 ypg, 7.1 Y/A | 19.6 ppg allowed (8th), 25 takeaways (14th) 2014 SB Champs - Wilson: 210 ypg, 8.2 Y/A | 14.4 ppg allowed (1st), 39 takeaways (1st) None of those guys were particularly dynamic, they just made enough plays and had elite defenses to lean on. Even Wilson was considered more of a game manager type when the Seahawks won the Super Bowl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 56 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Meh. I wouldn't take it that far. 2019 SB Champs - Brady: 272 ypg, 7.6 Y/A | 20.3 ppg allowed (7th), 28 takeaways (5th) 2018 SB Champs - Foles: 143 ypg, 5.3 Y/A | 18.4 ppg allowed (4th), 31 takeaways (4th) 2017 SB Champs - Brady: 296 ypg, 8.2 Y/A | 15.6 ppg allowed (1st), 23 takeaways (14th) 2016 SB Champs - Manning: 228 ypg, 6.8 Y/A | 18.5 ppg allowed (4th), 27 takeaways (7th) 2015 SB Champs - Brady: 256 ypg, 7.1 Y/A | 19.6 ppg allowed (8th), 25 takeaways (14th) 2014 SB Champs - Wilson: 210 ypg, 8.2 Y/A | 14.4 ppg allowed (1st), 39 takeaways (1st) None of those guys were particularly dynamic, they just made enough plays and had elite defenses to lean on. Even Wilson was considered more of a game manager type when the Seahawks won the Super Bowl. Difference between all those QBs is they are fearless and love to take chances, but still smart chances. Even Foles who doesn't have the skillset. Carr is not a fearless player like that, and just simply does not make the players around him better like Brady, Manning, and Wilson always have done. Football is more than stats. This isn't baseball. Moneyball has been tried by the Browns and they fell flat on their face. A QB requires fearless play, toughness beyond measure, and a brain that processes like a super computer. Carr is none of those three things... especially not the first two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Carr is not even a game manager. Idk why people keep trying to say that. When we actually have talent people shine with Carr. Waller, Jacobs, even Agholor. Raiders had a joke at wideout so they swung for the fences with AB, and drafted 3 wideouts last draft. When Cooper was checked in, and before Crabtree fell off, our offense was elite. Carr isn’t this game manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Carr is easily one the top 10-15 QBs in the NFL, who could make that jump into 5-10 if our young wideouts develop. Mahomes is a freak of nature, good luck trying to find someone on Mahomes level. I’ll rather just fix the defense 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Difference between all those QBs is they are fearless and love to take chances, but still smart chances. Even Foles who doesn't have the skillset. Carr is not a fearless player like that, and just simply does not make the players around him better like Brady, Manning, and Wilson always have done. Football is more than stats. This isn't baseball. Moneyball has been tried by the Browns and they fell flat on their face. A QB requires fearless play, toughness beyond measure, and a brain that processes like a super computer. Carr is none of those three things... especially not the first two. Another difference is that on any given week for those QB's mentioned, 21+ points would be enough to get a win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 Just now, Humble_Beast said: Carr is easily one the top 10-15 QBs in the NFL, who could make that jump into 5-10 if our young wideouts develop. Mahomes is a freak of nature, good luck trying to find someone on Mahomes level. I’ll rather just fix the defense Yeah, I wouldn't mind replacing Carr if the opportunity presented itself. But finding a QB like Mahomes or Wilson isn't easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Yeah, I wouldn't mind replacing Carr if the opportunity presented itself. But finding a QB like Mahomes or Wilson isn't easy. Just finding a starting QB isn’t easy. DC is under appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said: Just finding a starting QB isn’t easy. DC is under appreciated. Carr definitely is under appreciated around here and it's hard to find an elite QB. Over the last 10 years there have been 28 QB's drafted in the first round. Elite (5): Mahomes, Luck, Jackson, Allen, Watson Good starters (3): Goff, Wentz, Newton Okay starters (4): Mayfield, Darnold, Bridgewater, Tannehill Busts (13): Winston, Mariota, Lynch, Tribusky, Rosen, Bortles, Manziel, Griffin, Weeden, Locker, Ponder, Bradford, Tebow Jury is still out (3): Murray, Jones, Haskins Edited October 5, 2020 by NYRaider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 I'd probably lean towards Murray falling into the good to elite category, Haskins being a bust, and Jones becoming an okay starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said: Carr is easily one the top 10-15 QBs in the NFL, who could make that jump into 5-10 if our young wideouts develop. Mahomes is a freak of nature, good luck trying to find someone on Mahomes level. I’ll rather just fix the defense I do not think anyone has said we need to get a Mahomes level QB to win a championship. Most have said we need to do better than Carr to win a championship. Now he is not the only upgrade needed and we would need some luck also. I want a QB that plays above his talent when needed. Carr has not answered the bell for 4 years. I am happy that I see him trying more this year but has struggled some. Some of it is injuries but the QB I am looking for finds a way to win. The Saints game was great but I have not been impressed otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) People don’t understand the game if you can watch the Raiders every Sunday and think DC is the problem. Our offense without our starting WRs nearly dropped over 30 on one of the best teams and defenses in the league. That’s minus Ruggs/Edwards, Gruden conservative play calling, stupid turnovers, a beautiful TD pass called back... that’s with having a defense that creates no turnovers and couldn’t stop a nose bleed. Edited October 5, 2020 by Humble_Beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: I do not think anyone has said we need to get a Mahomes level QB to win a championship. Most have said we need to do better than Carr to win a championship. Now he is not the only upgrade needed and we would need some luck also. I want a QB that plays above his talent when needed. Carr has not answered the bell for 4 years. I am happy that I see him trying more this year but has struggled some. Some of it is injuries but the QB I am looking for finds a way to win. The Saints game was great but I have not been impressed otherwise. The recipe for success in the NFL hasn't changed at all though. The defenses of the last 10 Super Bowl winners averaged: 332 ypg allowed, 18.9. ppg allowed, 41 sacks, 29 takeaways. The last time we were consistently a playoff team was 2000-2002. 2000 defense: 328 ypg allowed, 18.7 ppg allowed, 37 takeaways, 43 sacks 2001 defense: 316 ypg allowed, 20.4 ppg allowed, 24 takeaways, 41 sacks 2002 defense: 311 ypg allowed, 19.0 ppg allowed, 31 takeaways, 43 sacks In the 17 seasons since then we've never had a season where we allowed less than 350 yards, less than 21 ppg, had 25+ takeaways, and 40 sacks in the same year. And we've only had 25+ takeaways 5 times, 40+ sacks 1 time, held opponents to under 21 ppg 1 time, and held opponents to under 350 ypg 3 times during that span. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: The recipe for success in the NFL hasn't changed at all though. The defenses of the last 10 Super Bowl winners averaged: 332 ypg allowed, 18.9. ppg allowed, 41 sacks, 29 takeaways. The last time we were consistently a playoff team was 2000-2002. 2000 defense: 328 ypg allowed, 18.7 ppg allowed, 37 takeaways, 43 sacks 2001 defense: 316 ypg allowed, 20.4 ppg allowed, 24 takeaways, 41 sacks 2002 defense: 311 ypg allowed, 19.0 ppg allowed, 31 takeaways, 43 sacks In the 17 seasons since then we've never had a season where we allowed less than 350 yards, less than 21 ppg, had 25+ takeaways, and 40 sacks in the same year. And we've only had 25+ takeaways 5 times, 40+ sacks 1 time, held opponents to under 21 ppg 1 time, and held opponents to under 350 ypg 3 times during that span. I think we need both. I have never said to ignore the defense. If you look at my threads about how I would draft differently then Mayock in 2018 and 2019 I would have drafted defensive players with 12 of the 16 picks. I would like to increase the focus on the defense. At the same time I think the offense can be top ten with a better QB. I also think we have made quite a few stupid decisions on both sides of the ball in the draft and FA. The Browns and the Seahawks both give up a lot of points just like us but have a combined record of 7-1. The reason they have a TO differential of +6 and +5. As great as Wilson is the defense is just as bad. They are still winning though because they win the TO differential. Same thing with almost every team that makes it to the Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 Just now, drfrey13 said: I think we need both. I have never said to ignore the defense. If you look at my threads about how I would draft differently then Mayock in 2018 and 2019 I would have drafted defensive players with 12 of the 16 picks. I would like to increase the focus on the defense. At the same time I think the offense can be top ten with a better QB. I also think we have made quite a few stupid decisions on both sides of the ball in the draft and FA. The Browns and the Seahawks both give up a lot of points just like us but have a combined record of 7-1. The reason they have a TO differential of +6 and +5. As great as Wilson is the defense is just as bad. They are still winning though because they win the TO differential. Same thing with almost every team that makes it to the Super Bowl. We currently rank 9th in both total offense and scoring offense. The Browns and Seahawks have also had the benefit of an easy start to the season in terms of scheduling. Our opponents so far this year have a combined record of 10-5, the Seahawks opponents have a combined record of 4-10, and the Browns opponents have a combined record of 6-9-1. None of the last 7 Super Bowl champions have allowed more than 20+ ppg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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