Fire Pace and Nagy

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, 41st ward Chicagoian said:

Not to wish ill on anyone and by no mean do i wish ill on anyone.  But hopefully when a certain person peacefully leaves the earth the estate tax forces the McCaskey’s to sell the team. 

Football seems to be doing a decent job of eating itself.  

Not sure its going to be a huge deal in 20 years.

A lot of young boys (most) in my neighborhood, including my son, are simply not into it.  When I was a kid it was nearly everything.   It was most important thing.

Youth football numbers are way down (pre Covid).   Doubt they will explode back up next year.   

Harder to be a fan of something you never played.  

 

 

 

 

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Football seems to be doing a decent job of eating itself.  

Not sure its going to be a huge deal in 20 years.

A lot of young boys (most) in my neighborhood, including my son, are simply not into it.  When I was a kid it was nearly everything.   It was most important thing.

Youth football numbers are way down (pre Covid).   Doubt they will explode back up next year.   

Harder to be a fan of something you never played.  

Idk, maybe its because I live in more of a rural area but football is huge here. Even our jamborees pack the stands.

When I told them the WIVC cancelled the season almost all the kids were crying. 

[topwop1]

IMO it's only a matter of time before someone or more is going to have to take the fall for the types of offensive performances we saw yesterday...if they continue which is invetiable that they will by the looks of it.

It happened with Trestman when the defense was just as bad then as the offense is now. 

It is actually embarassing how bad the Bears are on O considering the money and coaching staff invested in it. Worse than Jets even I'd say.  

There is hope for some major changes my friends 

Edited November 9, 2020 by topwop1

[WindyCity]

2 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

IMO it's only a matter of time before someone or more is going to have to take the fall for the types of offensive performances we saw yesterday...if they continue which is invetiable that they will by the looks of it.

It happened with Trestman when the defense was just as bad then as the offense is now. 

There is hope for some major changes my friends 

Bears ownership won’t fire people while their are excuses.

Covid, OL injuries, QB change etc will all be  rolled out as reasons to give these guys “1 more chance”.

[dll2000]

9 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Idk, maybe its because I live in more of a rural area but football is huge here. Even our jamborees pack the stands.

When I told them the WIVC cancelled the season almost all the kids were crying. 

Definitely pockets where it is still huge.  It can’t go from biggest thing to nothing over night, and it will never be nothing.   But remember baseball, boxing and horse racing were biggest deal for a very long time before football took over.  But national decline is noticeable and seems to be trending worse. 

Video games have achieved a level of fun that football is having a hard time matching and they are only getting better.  With concussions mom’s have good ammo that it is too dangerous.  In highly divided country Politics in football and politics of football players is turning many people off.

You turn off a show or entertainment you think you can’t live without and you find that you can.  

[topwop1]

Just now, WindyCity said:

Bears ownership won’t fire people while their are excuses.

Covid, OL injuries, QB change etc will all be  rolled out as reasons to give these guys “1 more chance”.

I don't know if those excuses are any good. COVID has nothing to do with the offense playing poorly. Besides Spriggs who else on offense was affected so far? Whitehair was already going to miss the game yesterday due to injury.

If anything COVID has shown a real lack of depth within this team.

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, topwop1 said:

I don't know if those excuses are any good. COVID has nothing to do with the offense playing poorly. Besides Spriggs who else on offense was affected so far? Whitehair was already going to miss the game yesterday due to injury.

If anything COVID has shown a real lack of depth within this team.

They aren’t. But they did this with Lovie. New coordinators, position coaches, new personnel.

Any excuse not to make a change.

The McCaskeys are bad owners. They don’t know how to win and fix things.

[dll2000]

2 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

They aren’t. But they did this with Lovie. New coordinators, position coaches, new personnel.

Any excuse not to make a change.

The McCaskeys are bad owners. They don’t know how to win and fix things.

They aren’t football people, their dad/grandfather was.   It’s the family income stream now.  They would like to win, more fun when they are winning and getting praise rather than criticism.   But they have to rely on others to win.  

They are on the every 5 years replace the coach mollify the fans and start over plan.   Hope you get lucky and get a winner in there at some point.       

[topwop1]

2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

They aren’t football people, their dad/grandfather was.   It’s the family income stream now.  They would like to win, more fun when they are winning and getting praise rather than criticism.   But they have to rely on others to win.  

They are on the every 5 years replace the coach mollify the fans and start over plan.   Hope you get lucky and get a winner in there at some point.       

Exactly.  I can't really blame them too much because they just don't really have a clue.

They are not really business people as they are just trust fund babies that inherited the team.  Most NFL teams nowadays are run by billionaires who know a thing or two about running multi billion dollar business.

Bears upper management needs to rely on help to find football people and even then they can't seem to get it right.  

We likely won't see the McCaskey's give up the team any time soon, though maybe they will finally consider making a change with the one constant through out all of this madness... sweaty Teddy Phillips...only then we can have some hope.  He's gotta be near retirement soon anyway no?

 

[topwop1]

2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

They aren’t. But they did this with Lovie. New coordinators, position coaches, new personnel.

Any excuse not to make a change.

The McCaskeys are bad owners. They don’t know how to win and fix things.

The difference is that Lovie was a defensive guy so he was given more slack when it came to the offense.  His defenses (outside of maybe 3 out of his 9 years in CHI) were usually always on point regardless of the coordinator be it Rivera, Babich or Marinelli.  Also when Martz and Tice as OC's were hired the offenses actually improved, albeit slightly.  Who knows what would have happened in 2011 if not for Cutler breaking his thumb half way through the season.

As for Nagy, a former NFL OC and college QB, he's in year 3 now and his offenses have gotten progressively worse. New hand picked position coaches and QB this year and the offense is arguably worse than last year.

How do you defend that?

As I said, the longer this pathetic and embarrassing display of offense keeps happening, especially if it happens when the Bears play on National TV, as in their next game against the Vikings and another one with the Packers, then the heat is only going to turn up on this staff. 

Chicago media is pretty ruthless so you have to think that the team's brass will hear about it one way or another if it hasn't already become apparent to them that there is a big problem here.

My point is let's not be so naive to think that it can't or won't happen.  If they can fire a beloved coach in Lovie after a 10-6 season then surely they can fire Nagy if the team finishes at or worse than that, because if they do happen to finish with a winning record it will only be in spite of Nagy and the O.

[abstract_thought]

5 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

As for Nagy, a former NFL OC and college QB, he's in year 3 now and his offenses have gotten progressively worse. New hand picked position coaches and QB this year and the offense is arguably worse than last year.

How do you defend that?

The main defense for Nagy is that Pace has built a defensive team for him to coach. There's little talent on offense. Lovie succeeded on D but there was always investment in his defensive personnel.

Is that enough? Probably not. But you can't ignore the position Nagy was put in by Pace. He came here with the idea of developing a young QB in his offense. Pace then thrust the team into a 3 year Super Bowl window by making a massive commitment to a defensive player. Pace bet on his QB and lost. Nagy is certainly part of the problem and will go along with him, but there's some room to defend him when you look at how Pace built the team.

[topwop1]

8 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

The main defense for Nagy is that Pace has built a defensive team for him to coach. There's little talent on offense. Lovie succeeded on D but there was always investment in his defensive personnel.

Is that enough? Probably not. But you can't ignore the position Nagy was put in by Pace. He came here with the idea of developing a young QB in his offense. Pace then thrust the team into a 3 year Super Bowl window by making a massive commitment to a defensive player. Pace bet on his QB and lost. Nagy is certainly part of the problem and will go along with him, but there's some room to defend him when you look at how Pace built the team.

I get what you re saying but in my mind there are no more excuses.  Look at the Dallas Cowboys.  They put up more points with their 4th string QB and an OL just as bad as the Bears is right now against the #1D in the league yesterday and almost pulled off the upset.

If you want to get rid of Pace also I am cool with that but I see no compelling argument to keep Nagy.

He asked for all these new pieces this offseason (new coaches + Graham, Harris, Kmet, etc) and they aren't helping.

You can make all the excuses you want for him but when outside media starts to see there is an issue with the coaching IMO it's over.

Edited November 9, 2020 by topwop1

[beardown3231]

I said it at the start of this thread:

Pace has now had 2 at bats to fix the QB and TE. Arguably, he's had 2 at bats to fix WR, too. 

In 2017, he drafted Trubisky and signed Glennon. In 2020, realizing his mistakes, he dealt a mid rounder for Foles.

From 2017-2018, he signed Burton and drafted Shaheen. In 2020, he took Kmet and signed Graham.

In 2018 he signed Robinson and traded up for Miller. In 2019, he took Ridley and in 2020 he drafted Mooney (Mooney and Robinson are fine).

How is NOT abudently clear that he absolutely blows at identifying offensive talent? Combine these errors with not even trying at OT, he's a giant failure.

Is it possible that maybe these guys are fine but Nagy sucks? Sure, Nagy does suck, but Graham sucks. Glennon sucks. Trubisky sucks. Foles sucks. Shaheen sucks. Miller is a head case. Ridley might be something elsewhere but likely not. Pace has got to go, and Nagy can ride with him to the airport.

[beardown3231]

The Bears' longest run in the last 2 games belongs to a LB

[WindyCity]

This debate is over right? I won?